Command limitations, etc.

[HoaryCenturion]

Gents,

Quick question or clarification regarding command distances and limitations, etc.

Let us say that a new player prepares a Spartan army containing 4 units of Elite Foot, 10 units of Heavy Foot, and 1 unit of Rabble.

He builds these with 80mm frontage bases and then lines them up as a single command with Elites on the right, heavy foot in the center and Rabble on the far left.

If the Spartan general is placed as the second stand on the right, a 16 MU command distance will leave 4 units of heavy foot and the rabble outside of his command.

Or, since all the units are in a group, will they count as in command?

Or, should the general stand be moved to the middle of the line, so that 16 MU extends left and right? (This would not be historical, as I understand the best troops and generals or leaders usually led from the right side.)

Thoughts and clarifications appreciated!

Cheers,
Chris

[David Kuijt]

If the Spartan general is placed as the second stand on the right, a 16 MU command distance will leave 4 units of heavy foot and the rabble outside of his command.

Or, since all the units are in a group, will they count as in command?

You seem to be structuring your thinking about command control as existing separately from orders -- it doesn't. Command control is calculated when you try to give a stand or a group a command. (ignoring issues of demoralized commands in Grand Triumph)

If you give those further units of heavy foot and rabble individual orders, dancing them around fancy-pants, yes, they cost two command points each because they are out of command control.

If you move the whole group forward conservatively, and include a single heavy foot that is within the command control range (and is also part of the moving group in the normal legal way), then it costs only one command point because the group (the MOVING group) is within command control.

Which is all very historical -- when a Greek general put himself on the far right flank (as they often did), they had a lot of difficulty responding quickly and effectively to what was happening on their far left flank. Surprise? Not at all.

[HoaryCenturion]

DK -
Thanks for responding. I have copied and pasted to this post in order to gain further clarification.

If you give those further units of heavy foot and rabble individual orders, dancing them around fancy-pants, yes, they cost two command points each because they are out of command control.
Let us say that I don't want these heavy foot or rabble to dance around (salsa, hip-hop, crunk, break-dance or whatever), I just want them to move with the group.
I gather from the last part of your statement that these units are out of control even if they started off as part of the larger group, so, moving the 5 units as a group would cost 2 command points or pips.

If you move the whole group forward conservatively, and include a single heavy foot that is within the command control range (and is also part of the moving group in the normal legal way), then it costs only one command point because the group (the MOVING group) is within command control.
This statement seems to reinforce my guess above. So, in a pretend turn, the Spartan general (over on the right of the line) would have to roll a 3 or better on the d6 in order to move the entire line forward.

Thanks in advance.

[David Kuijt]

[/size]Let us say that I don't want these heavy foot or rabble to dance around (salsa, hip-hop, crunk, break-dance or whatever), I just want them to move with the group.
I gather from the last part of your statement that these units are out of control even if they started off as part of the larger group, so, moving the 5 units as a group would cost 2 command points or pips.

No, that's exactly reversed. if you are moving a group the determination is whether the WHOLE GROUP is in command control or not. So you measure command control distance to ANY PART of the whole group, and if it is in command control range, the WHOLE MOVING GROUP is in command control range.

[David Kuijt]

If you move the whole group forward conservatively, and include a single heavy foot that is within the command control range (and is also part of the moving group in the normal legal way), then it costs only one command point because the group (the MOVING group) is within command control.
This statement seems to reinforce my guess above. So, in a pretend turn, the Spartan general (over on the right of the line) would have to roll a 3 or better on the d6 in order to move the entire line forward.

1 command point would suffice to move the whole line forward, if at least one stand in the moving group is within command control.

[David Kuijt]

If you're having trouble internalizing the rule, think of it this way, and maybe it will help.

If you're giving orders to a stand, all you need is for some part of the stand to be within command control range, and the whole stand can be given orders for cheap. Even if part of the stand extends beyond the command control range.

If you're giving orders to a group, all you need is for some part of the group to be within command control range, and the whole group can be given orders for cheap. Even if part of the group (one or more of the stands) extends beyond the command control range.