Terrain definitions

[greedo]

Was looking in the rules and had a few questions:

What counts as difficult terrain?
Is a gentle hill difficult terrain?
Or is that only a steep hill?
What about about a village?
Do you “occupy” a village or it’s just difficult terrain that blocks los for pip rolling (basically it’s a wood).

I might make up a simple table to show all the terrain types and their effect on pips, and combat. It might be waaay easier than I think.

Also, I’m assuming if two terrain pieces are the same size, the placing player can decide what order those go in right?

And how do I determine “size” of terrain? Do I measure rectangular length + width?

Thanks again. Second game tonight. Later Carthage in Spain vs Polybian. Solo game. Carthage stuck a hill in the middle of the board but then I worried that I’d just screwed my elephants and heavy foot over hence the question about gentle hills.

[Brummbär]

Good starting point for the size of terrain could be the rulebook, page 7

[Rod]

Page 6 and 7 as mentioned above cover your questions.

There are open, difficult, and impassable.

Gentle hills are open terrain, coasts are impassable terrain, all others are difficult.

Villages are basically the same as woods other than looks.

You can number the terrain in any order you like, I think in one of my videos I mention largest to smallest, that is an older concept and not in the final rules.

I use rectangular gages for max size and circular or half ovals ones for minimum. There are infinite possibilities for shape, the guideline is to try and prevent weird and unnatural looking terrain pieces.

[greedo]

Page 6 and 7 as mentioned above cover your questions.
There are open, difficult, and impassable.
Gentle hills are open terrain, coasts are impassable terrain, all others are difficult.
Villages are basically the same as woods other than looks.
You can number the terrain in any order you like, I think in one of my videos I mention largest to smallest, that is an older concept and not in the final rules.
I use rectangular gages for max size and circular or half ovals ones for minimum. There are infinite possibilities for shape, the guideline is to try and prevent weird and unnatural looking terrain pieces.

Ah there it all is. Thanks! I saw in a sheet (separate from the QRS) that had all the setup steps, and saw the ordering of larger to smaller, so must have been a previous version.

[greedo]

Good starting point for the size of terrain could be the rulebook, page 7

In my defense, the rules are very complete, but there are a lot of them, and it can be hard to find specific rules in each of the sections. The game is itself pretty simple, but there are lot of specific rules, I think to ensure tournaments are confusion free.

For example, I learned last night that both Skirmishers AND Rabble can group move through difficult terrain for 1 command PIP, but only Skirmishers can Interpolate through all other troops, whereas Rabble can only pass through other open order troops. It's a great rule to know, but they can be a bit hard to find.

[David Kuijt]

The game is itself pretty simple, but there are lot of specific rules, I think to ensure tournaments are confusion free.

Cool. And I appreciate that it is difficult to learn rules in isolation (as we are all, in Covid world), and asking questions in this sort of community is a great way to resolve confusion.

But I wanted to make a small point -- it ain't about tournaments. Confusion is the enemy in any gaming community. Conventions (at which there are tournaments, but also other activities) are important because they often point out how different communities play differently -- have different interpretations of the rules. Because that's where such communities overlap and mix. Conventions serve as a great way to learn new games, and to check your understanding of how a game works with other people who play that game.

We've done what we can to make the rules as clear as possible. Many miniatures systems are a horror of assumptions and undefined mechanisms -- anyone remember the "amoeba move" in legacy systems? Tournaments do not create these horrors -- however, serving in their role as a melting pot of different gaming communities that play the same game, tournaments do expose where any differences in play (differing interpretations) might exist.

[greedo]

You can number the terrain in any order you like, I think in one of my videos I mention largest to smallest, that is an older concept and not in the final rules.

I use rectangular gages for max size and circular or half ovals ones for minimum. There are infinite possibilities for shape, the guideline is to try and prevent weird and unnatural looking terrain pieces.

I've made some cardboard rectangles to check terrain sizes, although most of mine are regular.
That said, I think we're still supposed to order the terrain large over small. 26.1a, "Large terrain pieces must be ordered before small terrain pieces.", but at least that means we don't have to size regular pieces or large pieces. That's much simpler!

I've modified my troop summary sheet with the special rules for Open Order, Skirmishers and Rabble in a "Notes" section. This is all getting clearer, and to DK's point, it can be tough to read a new rules set while isolated. Definitely agree that forums/communities like this help a huge amount (it also helps to have the authors respond daily!)

[greedo]

Tournaments do not create these horrors -- however, serving in their role as a melting pot of different gaming communities that play the same game, tournaments do expose where any differences in play (differing interpretations) might exist.

Agreed. I played in a 40k tournament purely as a mechanism for me to get the rules down. I knew I'd get my butt kicked, but by the end of 6 games in 2 days, I had the rules down cold (and almost won best painted army!)

What I really meant is that if the rules are all there, there will be no ambiguity, and I definitely think this set does that. As a raw beginner, on my own, I will keep making Game Aids to help though, and hopefully these will prove helpful to the wider community. The videos and play throughs are most definitely helpful too.

[JonathanJ]

....
You can number the terrain in any order you like, I think in one of my videos I mention largest to smallest, that is an older concept and not in the final rules.
....

Both here and in the TTS stream it was said that terrain can be put in any order, but my copy of the rules (ver. 1.1) states that large terrain peices must be ordered before small terrain (rule 26.1.a). Do I have an outdated set of rules?

[greedo]

I think the thing is that you don’t have to order terrain within the 2 sizes. So you don’t have to order a bunch of regular pieces from largest to smallest but you do have to make sure that distinctly “large” pieces go before the distinctly “regular” ones, but that’s the only restriction.