WOTR Pikemen and Scottish allies

[DanielMoreno]

Continental Pikemen and Scottish allies appear to be missing from the list.

[David Kuijt]

Continental Pikemen and Scottish allies appear to be missing from the list.

More details? Are you comparing to some other game's army lists, or is there a particular battle or source document you can cite for us to check?

[Andreas Johansson]

There 's a theory that some or all Henry Tudor's French troops at Bosworth were pikemen - though Duncan Head has recently argued they were more likely archers and voulgiers (and so more-or-less tactically indistinguishable from the English infantry).

[Rod]

I believe there was joint Lancastrian / Scottish actions with the siege of Carlisle and a siege relief of Alnwick.

But I am not sure if they included Pike?

[DanielMoreno]

In 1460 Margaret of Anjou fled to Scotland with her son Edward to gain Scottish support. She was given a Scottish army by Queen Mary and invaded northern England where she fought several battles until defeated at the Battle of Towton. I believe pikemen were used at Bosworth. Depend on who you read, it is said they were used to protect Henry.

[Rod]

Anybody get their slingshot copy the latest one is supposed to cover Bosworth?

[DanielMoreno]

found the book re-pikemen. Bosworth 1485 by Michael Jones. "The army’s backbone was a force of over a thousand French pikemen recruited from a disbanded war camp at Pont-de-l’Arche in upper Normandy."

[David Kuijt]

There 's a theory that some or all Henry Tudor's French troops at Bosworth were pikemen - though Duncan Head has recently argued they were more likely archers and voulgiers (and so more-or-less tactically indistinguishable from the English infantry).

Duncan Head is a very knowledgeable fellow.

[David Kuijt]

In 1460 Margaret of Anjou fled to Scotland with her son Edward to gain Scottish support. She was given a Scottish army by Queen Mary and invaded northern England where she fought several battles until defeated at the Battle of Towton.

A Scottish army operating independently counts as Scots, even if fighting for the side of Lancaster. We try to avoid giving an army ally status unless the whole army had major components of both, fighting together. As a related example (a generation earlier), a Scots force went to France to fight in the Hundred Year's War on the side of the French, but the Scots forces do not count as a "Scots Common" ally because they were a completely different distribution of forces than the typical Scots army with myriad common pikemen.

Regarding Towton, do you have any support for the idea that there were any Scots in her army at that point? The reading I've done hasn't mentioned anything of the sort.

I believe pikemen were used at Bosworth. Depend on who you read, it is said they were used to protect Henry.

I'll look for your book by Michael Jones.

[David Kuijt]

found the book re-pikemen. Bosworth 1485 by Michael Jones. "The army’s backbone was a force of over a thousand French pikemen recruited from a disbanded war camp at Pont-de-l’Arche in upper Normandy."

Andreas, are those the troops who you were talking about, that Duncan Head argues were a mixture of voulgiers and archers?