15mm Khurasan Jurchen Jin

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Rod
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Re: 15mm Khurasan Jurchen Jin

Postby Rod » Tue Jan 30, 2018 6:34 pm

Thanks, that makes sense.

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David Kuijt
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Re: 15mm Khurasan Jurchen Jin

Postby David Kuijt » Tue Jan 30, 2018 7:13 pm

Rod wrote:Apparently they were even described as dismounting to fight on foot with two handed weapons.


Can you send me the link on that, Rod? I'm not sure I've got that written up in the battle card system.
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Rod
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Re: 15mm Khurasan Jurchen Jin

Postby Rod » Tue Jan 30, 2018 9:58 pm

David,
I saw it on the Dragon Armory blogspot...

http://dragonsarmory.blogspot.com/2017/ ... e.html?m=1

Will have to look for the exact spot it was referenced to a specific battle too.

Here is describes them as dismounting if necessary and frequently?
http://dragonsarmory.blogspot.com/2017/ ... armor.html

But there was also a battle description, trying to find it. However in the above passage they are actually described as "Heavy Dragoons" dismounting when necessary.
"
Interestingly, the battle records of the Iron Pagodas began at the climax of their success and the absolute height of Prince Wuzhu's career- and also the height of Jin supremacy on the battlefield. When the Iron Pagodas first appeared in 1127, they came almost as a heart attack to the beleaguered Song. An unstoppable, immensely numerous row of heavy shock cavalry in the thousands flanked by two great wings of nimble horse archers- who may have the ability to mow down whole rows of infantry with interlinked thongs and who are also equipped to besiege cities on the fly- it was a unit made in hell to exploit every weakness possessed by the Song."

So this passage made me think (Knights or Cataphracts) + Horsebow. If they were considered separate units, however if we consider them integrated, obviously Elite Cav is more appropriate.

Once again this is coming from a blog, but it appears to be a pretty decent one with a lot of Chinese source material.

Rod
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Re: 15mm Khurasan Jurchen Jin

Postby Rod » Tue Jan 30, 2018 10:41 pm

Found it....

"For- unlike most heavy cavalry that was fielded throughout eastern and western history, the Iron Pagodas frequently dismounted and fought as heavy infantry. Especially in many sieges, Song records states that in the Battle of Jinzhen Pass 仙人关之战 around Shanxi, the Iron Pagodas dismounted and then drew up formation in rows and advanced in infantry formations. This is reflected in their equipment~ as most are equipped with not only bow and quiver for counter firing, they were also equipped with heavy two handed chopping blades against enemy armored targets."

from here:

http://dragonsarmory.blogspot.com/2017/ ... -iron.html

Interesting because they certainly look like Cataphracts and are described as Cataphracts, but tactic wise they are described as shock Cavalry?


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