Depth of Pike elements

[Brummbär]

I struggle to understand why the pike elements for Triumph are 15mm deep (40mm base width).
This gives a base of pikes in the battle line the opportuity to turn and fall back if they were beaten from a side attack.
From my understanding so far, a side charge would have been deadly to pike elements. Would it not be more "realistic" to make them 30mm deep to reflect this?
If they are now beaten from a side attack, they turn, can't fall back, as the next element in the line is i the way and are therefor destroyed...

Some drawing to show what I mean:

Pike.png (46.29 KiB) Viewed 7358 times

I really struggle with that point, so could yo maybe share your ideas with me?
Or maybe I do forget/overlook some other critical point...

Thanks!!!

[Rod]

A single pike stand is really a thinned out line of pikes, i.e. pikes not deployed in a deep phalanx. Scots Common would be a good example of pikes that might not always deployed like a Macedonian style phalanx. So having them on a single stand means they can be deployed in either formation.

You are correct in that they should be vulnerable in phalanx formation when attacked on the flank. The combat can be fought against front stand in a two stand formation and if the front stand loses it cannot turn and is destroyed.

When deployed as a single stand they are essentially fighting like any other close order foot in a thinner shieldwall. They are at a disadvantage in this formation to the front with the loss of rear support and still vulnerable from the flank (lower combat roll) but they are more flexible to fall back and adjust formation than the deeper phalanx.

[Brummbär]

Thanks - understood!

Cheers,
Thomas

[chris6]

The combat can be fought against front stand in a two stand formation and if the front stand loses it cannot turn and is destroyed.

What happens to the pike in the second row? Turns to the attacking element? Or just stays in place?

[Rod]

Stays in place with the victorious stand potentially still covering it's flank. So it is not in a very good position either and will fight a flanked combat next turn unless something else intervenes.

Pike flanks are vulnerable in Triumph! as they were in real life, they need to be protected.

[chris6]

OK!

[Brummbär]

Hi Rod,

maybe also a good topic for another teaching video…
I really miss them!

Cheers,
Thomas

[chris6]

Me too!

[Rod]

I know as a Youtube influencer, I suck

Been getting ready for Hcon, will try to make some videos there too.

Also want to do some stuff on fantasy.

[Brummbär]

Really looking forward to whatever you will broadcast to us!

Fun fact: in another forum (https://www.tabletopwelt.de/index.php?/ ... nt-5494529) in Germany same topic came up today with rear supported warband.
Seems that it gets complicated as soon as elements which can get rear support are contacted from the front and from the flank...

Something like that:

Question.png (1.34 KiB) Viewed 7253 times

Let's say it is Pikes or Warband...
Does Element A get rear support if it attacks to the front?
If it looses the combat, it is for sure destroyed - but what happens to the element which gave rear support?