Rabble in Hoplite Armies

[David Kuijt]

Thanks DK. That is exactly the picture I was thinking about in the Osprey book after reading your first reply.

Excellent.

I think the only point of disagreement is a belief on my part that people commonly use a practical 'anchoring' technique in their thinking. For gamers it is anchoring from one game system to another. You may to be less of a rules and period junky than some of us, certainly than me. If I couldn't anchor from one system to another and analogize in game terms it would really slow me down.

What you describe certainly goes on -- I'd never say otherwise. The first question I ask when teaching new players Triumph! at the walkup events is "have you ever played Ancients before?" If so, I ask which system, then launch into a short prepared section based on whether their past experience is AdG, FoG, Warrior, DBx, skirmish gaming, whatever. If they've never played Ancients before, my teaching approach is entirely different. At least half the people who participate in our Epic Battle Walkups have never played Ancients before.

To try and frame Triumph participation in terms of a dependency ('anchor', in your nomenclature) on any particular game is a poor marketing strategy -- our aim is to add new players to the Ancients gaming pool (lots of players who have never tried Ancients before, and have no experiential 'anchor' in Ancients). We don't want to restrict our playing pool to a fraction of an aging audience with experience in a Legacy game that is no longer being played (DBM, DBA2.2, DBA 2.2+), that never was very successful on this continent (FoG, DBMM, DBA 3.0), or that is aging and shrinking (AdG, some other games).

So I agree with you -- people use the sort of anchor you describe. And I teach the game to them depending upon which games they have played in the past. But I do not, should not, assume such an anchor in the minds of Triumph players -- new players, new to Ancients, will be the life blood of the hobby moving forward.

[Bill Hupp]

DK,

We appear to be violently in agreement about anchoring, marketing and individualizing introduction of new gamers and meeting them where they are at.

My original question was just to see what others had done with their legacy Classical Greek armies. As a frequent buyer of DBA, FOG and other system’s armies, Greek Classical armies are some of the most common and inexpensive armies to purchase. They are very useful and can stand in for a lot of armies over a long period of time.

Bill

[David Kuijt]

My original question was just to see what others had done with their legacy Classical Greek armies. As a frequent buyer of DBA, FOG and other system’s armies, Greek Classical armies are some of the most common and inexpensive armies to purchase. They are very useful and can stand in for a lot of armies over a long period of time.

Speaking only for myself, the hoplite armies without standardized shield patterns are great for morphing. So I paint up a bunch of Heavy Foot with cool shields that can work for a huge raft of armies, then I paint some rabble (psiloi in the Greek sense, not the DBA sense), some Cretan archers and some slingers (both skirmishers), some peltasts (light foot), and some bad horse. That gives me enough figs to morph half a dozen Later Hoplite armies.

If I want to do Aitolian/Akarnanian, Thessalian, something with a big diversion from the normal proportions of "lots of Heavy Foot and a few other things for flavor", I paint those up later as interest drives.

When I do a hoplite army that used a particular shield pattern, I paint it as a single army without considering morphing. Spartans, for example. I've got a Xyston Spartan army ready for painting; I'm just waiting for the time to paint it up (I've got like 10 armies ahead of it in the project queue before it gets seriously considered for attention).

Other people may do things differently, of course -- this is just my current approach, for these armies.

[Bill Hupp]

DK,

I like that approach. And you find the armies for sale exactly as you state - mixed shields and single theme shields (usually Spartan.)

In additon to needing rabble, in buying a DBA hoplite army you need more hoplites as heavy foot at 3 points requires a couple more to get the point total up to 48. Even hoplite units tend to come in 48 figure, 12 base units.

[David Kuijt]

DK,

I like that approach. And you find the armies for sale exactly as you state - mixed shields and single theme shields (usually Spartan.)

In additon to needing rabble, in buying a DBA hoplite army you need more hoplites as heavy foot at 3 points requires a couple more to get the point total up to 48. Even hoplite units tend to come in 48 figure, 12 base units.

I never buy premade armies -- and until manufacturers make up premade Triumph armies, I won't start. I certainly wouldn't buy premade armies for other systems (DBA 2, DBA 3, or whatever). I've just been looking over an old DBA 2.0-ish premade Essex army I won as a prize a decade ago (Middle Assyrians/Early Neo Assyrians) and not only is the army too small (because of the greater flexibility of the Triumph army lists, and because of the point values) but the Essex guys put in some figures that are really not appropriate for the MidAssy/E.NeoAssy, being much later in later shields and later armor.

We've put together some "recommended armies" aimed at making it easy for manufacturers to put together Triumph army packs; the data is in Meshwesh but hidden, it just needs the next code release on Meshwesh to be visible. When you get T&R to the point of thinking about putting together Triumph army packs, send me a private email and I'll send you our thoughts on what stands of troops to put together for Triumph army packs for various armies that fit your figure ranges.

[Piyan Glupak]

I never buy premade armies -- and until manufacturers make up premade Triumph armies, I won't start. I certainly wouldn't buy premade armies for other systems (DBA 2, DBA 3, or whatever). I've just been looking over an old DBA 2.0-ish premade Essex army I won as a prize a decade ago (Middle Assyrians/Early Neo Assyrians) and not only is the army too small (because of the greater flexibility of the Triumph army lists, and because of the point values) but the Essex guys put in some figures that are really not appropriate for the MidAssy/E.NeoAssy, being much later in later shields and later armor.

I find Essex often put inappropriate figures in their DBA army packs. (Most of my ancient armies started as DBA armies.) That is why I find myself often looking at Donnington Miniatures, who sell figures by the individual figure (subject to minimum postage and packing charge). Another firm to consider is Chariot Miniatures, who sell figures by DBA element, normal packet, or larger quantity. I tend to prefer both Donnington and Chariot to Essex (with the exception of the Essex Warring States Chinese). The reason that I bought Essex figures is that the main shop in Sheffield stocks them.