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Bill Hupp wrote: ↑

Sat Mar 06, 2021 2:30 am

I have used a very simple mechanism to ‘balance’ the game for historical battles and for teaching purposes. Instead of average die, I give players command point chits.

Historical battles are a separate topic, but for teaching purposes I think you might be doing your students a disservice by avoiding teaching the command point rules. As I mentioned earlier, IMO those are the most critical rules in terms of advancing player ability.

When I teach the game, I just choose a less complicated matchup (2-ish common types per army and a couple of other stands; not using Artillery or WWg or Elephants) and go at it, with explaining options and tradeoffs as I move, and when the new player is considering his moves. For the first game I don't bother with setup and deployment -- I just do that for them quickly. Second game I introduce deployment; third game I introduce the terrain rules. With experienced players (who have played other rules sets before and have a basic understanding of historicals) I let them do deployment on the first game.

Everyone understands the general idea of command points by their third turn. Truly mastering the subtlety of the system might take another hundred games, but they get the idea almost immediately.

Bill Hupp wrote: ↑

Sat Mar 06, 2021 2:30 am

As GM I used the chits to keep the campaign interesting and reward players for audacity, honor, etc.

That’s such a great convention idea! Love the idea of giving a little nudge to people who do crazy brave yet foolhardy or gallant behavior! Rescuing an ally etc Especially if the period was high medieval or samurai where honor is such a “thing”

Would add such a positive energy to tournaments

The original idea for the Mongol Campaign was from Chris Brantley and Jeff Caruso I believe using 2.2 and run at Historicon .

You also had money to bribe others to be allies or attack other players. Most represented money from China to keep the tribes at war and from uniting. I used a friend who was watching the campaign to act as my agent and secretly pass bribes and spread rumors.

Bill

sounds like a great convention idea Bill.
David C. My early poles are almost done. they can have up to 8 archers.

DK,

Let me offer a mild objection to your use of the words 'disservic'e and 'not teaching the command point rules.'

Of course I teach that rule. The command chits are there to just avoid those gaming experiences where new players roll a bunch of 1s, don't get to do much and get beat quickly.

To get more specific: 1 chit equals either a reroll (Mongol game - appeal to the gods) or 1 command pip and you can only use 1 per turn. I don't think a player has ever had more than 3 or 4 chits for a whole game.

From my introduction to DBA by Chris Brantley and DS at Historicon in 2014 I have found the game mechanics of command points and opposing die roll combats to be very robust and hard to break, no matter how much I have tweaked them since then. I'm afraid I am unlikely to stop experimenting.

Bill Hupp wrote: ↑

Tue Mar 09, 2021 9:22 pm

From my introduction to DBA by Chris Brantley and DS at Historicon in 2014 I have found the game mechanics of command points and opposing die roll combats to be very robust and hard to break, no matter how much I have tweaked them since then. I'm afraid I am unlikely to stop experimenting.

I met Chris B at Historicon too, although I forget which year..
Since he started Fanaticus, I was a bit in awe

Bill Hupp wrote: ↑

Tue Mar 09, 2021 9:22 pm

To get more specific: 1 chit equals either a reroll (Mongol game - appeal to the gods) or 1 command pip and you can only use 1 per turn. I don't think a player has ever had more than 3 or 4 chits for a whole game.

From my introduction to DBA by Chris Brantley and DS at Historicon in 2014 I have found the game mechanics of command points and opposing die roll combats to be very robust and hard to break, no matter how much I have tweaked them since then. I'm afraid I am unlikely to stop experimenting.

And you shouldn't stop experimenting!

I was responding to you in the context of the topic and conversation at the time was about teaching the game, handicapping, that sort of thing. That's a very different world from creating fun and interesting "one-off" games, like Chris B's Mongol game of 2014 or so. Chris's game was great fun and highly regarded by everyone who participated in it at the time -- a tremendous success. But it was a multi-player convention game with lots of social stuff in it, everyone attacking everyone, and the strategic map and the tactical map were deliberately merged.

That made for a great game for 14 people at once. But nothing that I would ever teach a new player.

Read with interest your discussion on Horse Bow. Close to my heart...My first Ancients army was Parthian, which my daughter used for a number of years on our national DBM tournament circuit.

All I remember was that, although she was an average player she rarely lost, but either won on occasion or drew, as the Parthian army was quite forgiving and could get out of trouble fairly easily. Critical was getting the option to choose terrain however, and when this occurred the Parthians were certainly a force to contend with. The only terrain my daughter used to take with her was the minimum, compulsory, two gentle hills!
For Triumph! I have two Horse Bow armies. Parthian and Kushan, the latter, I made out of excess Parthian figures. Photo: My now +-35yr old Parthians. Glitter on the armour and Lances out of skin suture needles. (Great to keep little kids hand off them!;)

Also the PiP discussion and your explanation David was fascinating. (now I feel better re those 1's & 2's;) I think when one rolls high the tendency is to "do something." (Sometimes it is safer, if unsure, to do nothing!

Re: "Blind General" Not sure whose seen, but this method devised by someone on the DBA is interesting to try.
You throw your PiP's but you don't know what they are. Your opponent keeps them under a cup and only tells you when you've used them up. We tried it once. Certainly makes you think in a different, more careful way!

That "Blind General"-variant really sounds interesting!!!
Thanks for the idea!