Deployment

Share some insight about your best TRIUMPH! strategy.
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RogerCooper
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Deployment

Post by RogerCooper » Tue Aug 27, 2024 10:28 pm

I have observed that the initial deployment of forces is often the key to victory. I would like to hear from players more experienced than myself about what is the best deployment for mixed armies facing other mixed armies.

Some things are clear. Fast units (normally cavalry) belong on the flanks, were they can use their mobility to flank the enemy. (The way armies were usually deployed historically). Open order troops should be deployed to take advantage of difficult terrain. If your units get rear support bonuses, double them up.

Other things are not so clear. If you have a mixture of close combat troops and ranged fire troops, should they be intermixed or deployed separately? The same question applies if your close combat troops are of mixed quality. Historically, the HYW English intermixed their forces, but I am not sure how common a practice it was. The French generally put their ranged fire troops in front, which usually worked out poorly.

If you have a small force of cavalry, should you split them between the flanks or concentrate them on a single flank (while using infantry that peform relatively well against cavalry on the other flank)?

Is it ever worthwhile to have a full or partial second line? (Other than the case of rear support bonuses).
skc
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Re: Deployment

Post by skc » Wed Aug 28, 2024 11:23 am

I'm still trying to work out deployment including the fiendish, terrain deployment setup. (Tricky but suspect there is method in their madness!)

One thing I've recently discovered with my Ancient British regarding the ability of Battle Taxis to interpenetrate the Open Order Warband and that they not die against Close Order troops even on a double.

Battletaxis are deployed in front of or back of, the Warband. When nearing the Roman Close Order Line they go in first. Romans may get a double on the Battle Taxi but it does not die, just evades or panics back through the Warband. The Roman stand has to follow up, leaving its flanks exposed to the Warband line, which when it moves in getting two overlaps on the Roman stand. Haven't quite worked it out and it takes much planning, positioning and desperation to beat these damn Romans with Ancient British!
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David Kuijt
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Re: Deployment

Post by David Kuijt » Wed Aug 28, 2024 3:08 pm

It's a complex question, because so many of these issues interact with each other.

Terrain by itself is complex. A village on one flank, close enough to impede you. Do you use it (with open order troops) as a pivot for a mounted sweep around it? Do you attack through it with strength? Do you screen it? (Screen, in this case, means to put troops in front of it that you do not intend to use to fight in it -- often cheaper close-order troops, like heavy foot or horde. This is intended to interdict the enemy's use of the village, but with troops that cannot fight in the village.) Your choice will be driven by what types and numbers of troops you have, and what types and numbers of troops your enemy has.

Triumph is not a game of winning everywhere -- generals who try it, fail. Triumph is a game of effective use of limited resources. Mostly command points, but also troops. If I put three horde to screen a village, and the enemy puts three raiders to attack through it with strength, the raiders will eventually win on that flank -- but if I am smart, I will win the battle as a whole. Because the enemy general has committed a major part of his army, and an even larger part of his command points over the next dozen turns, to that attack. So I'll have a similar advantage elsewhere. Can I win on the far flank or center, before he fights through that village? Very likely.

Your initial (deployment) plan needs to be flexible -- you need to be able to change your mind, based upon enemy action. If the enemy deploys heavily on that flank, or screens the village, or sets up to use it as a pivot, that's going to modify your initial thought. If I have three Heavy Foot screening a village, and the enemy puts a couple of skirmishers in it (to delay and deny access), then I might try to push the heavy foot through. If even one stand makes it through the village, the skirmishers are suddenly in serious trouble. My heavy foot screen has now become a group that I'm willing to push through the village, to try and turn the enemy's flank. Maybe! If one +2 vs +2 attack goes really bad, or if my command points go bad, that attack will stall.

A major part of the battle is fought in the mind. The impact of your plan on the enemy general doesn't depend upon your plan, it depends upon what he THINKS your plan is. Deception is a great weapon. That's true of deployment as much as anything else. Deployment that looks like one thing, but is actually something else, can create uncertainty and lead the enemy into mistakes. The "glistening plum" (some troops that look vulnerable) is very useful.

Changing your deployment into something different is a major way to mess up enemy plans (and deployments). Having reserves is part of this, but so is wheeling -- wheeling is more important than "sliding sideways" or swapping matchups. Swapping matchups is usually not an effective tactic -- anything you can do, he can do, and command point advantages are temporary. Wheeling changes what parts of the line are facing what other part across the whole line, and changes where you are being aggressive and where you are refusing (forcing him to use more command points to engage).

Do you have any way you can express your will (fight, in other words) at a distance? Especially a long long distance? Artillery are a stand type that can have a major impact on the game -- and it all happens in (or soon after) deployment. On the flip side, if your enemy is better than you at deployment, your artillery may end up sad and weeping, or popped like a balloon, leaving a big whole in your line. Artillery deserve an article all by themselves, but they tie in to the fundamental idea of deployment -- foresight. If you can foresee where the battle is going to be fought, you will overperform. If you have no idea, or if your idea of where the battle is going to be fought is incorrect, you will underperform.

Crowding the enemy so they cannot redeploy (modify their own initial deployment) is also a fundamental tool. March moving to get close enough that the enemy cannot march move can give you a significant advantage; hesitation or indecision on the enemy's part in the first few turns can be devastating if you press them hard. Fast troops (including sweeps of multi-stand groups of skirmishers and rabble through difficult terrain) can really put on the pressure.

Okay, too much info here already, so I'll stop for now.
DK
RogerCooper
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Re: Deployment

Post by RogerCooper » Wed Aug 28, 2024 10:29 pm

If you have a mixture of close combat infantry and archers, is it better to intersperse the archers or to keep the archers together?
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Rod
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Re: Deployment

Post by Rod » Thu Aug 29, 2024 10:28 pm

In most instances, intersperse. More targets for your archers and it also makes it more difficult for your opponent to attack using a particular troop (knights vs. heavy foot for example) without the risk of a more threatening unit getting involved.
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David Kuijt
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Re: Deployment

Post by David Kuijt » Sun Sep 01, 2024 12:28 pm

RogerCooper wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2024 10:29 pm
If you have a mixture of close combat infantry and archers, is it better to intersperse the archers or to keep the archers together?
You get as many answers to that as you have generals, I expect.

Rod's answer is good, but that's not what I do. My answer is "it depends". Intersperse locks you in to that plan -- which is good, but not very flexible. For me, it depends upon what the rest of the battle looks like. And are you facing Knights, or JavCav, or Horsebow, or Elephants? Or enemy infantry? And what kind of close combat infantry do you have? What is your battle plan? (where on the battlefield, in time and space, are you intending to win? Where are you intending to lose -- but slowly? If you are intending to win everywhere, you probably won't win at all)
  • If you're facing Knights, and trying to hide your close combat infantry (because they're Heavy Foot or Elite Foot, who really don't like Knights) -- Intersperse.
  • If you're facing Knights, but you don't need to hide your close combat infantry (CCI, from here on) -- put your CCI in the useful place where they can do something without hiding. Knights are largely terrified of a line of Archers.
  • If you're facing JavCav, intersperse sometimes. Archers don't like JavCav so much; support with Elite Foot is good. Support with Heavy Foot isn't as good, because they can't kill the JavCav on a double.
  • If you're facing Horsebow, intersperse always -- to make your line wider, not to make it stronger. Horsebow beat you with speed, not by assaulting your line. Your CCI and Archers won't match the speed; be wary of them zooming around one flank in an on-map flank march. Maybe even have two Archers on both ends of your line (where the Horsebow will be trying to wrap around) and none (or few) in the center.
  • If you're facing Cataphracts, concentrate. Cataphracts are fine with hitting dispersed Archers; to ensure that you break up their line sufficiently to get lots of shots and maybe prevent a concerted smash into your line, concentrate the Archers.
  • If you're facing Elephants, do a Cannae. It's your only hope. CCI in the center, with some reserve; Archers on the flanks; create a cup by wheeling the archer formations inward. Ideally have at least one terrain piece supporting the formation you will be adopting. If you can't do a Cannae, concentrate and pray.
If you're facing infantry, a lot depends upon what type of infantry, and what type of CCI you have.
  • If your CCI are Elite Foot, you can do whatever you want.
  • If the enemy infantry are Warband/Warriors, concentrate -- the interspersed formation is too vulnerable if the enemy hits on their turn and rolls the attacks on the Archers first.
  • If the enemy infantry are Light Foot, you can do whatever you want -- they'll be weeping at the end of the day. Unless you let the wrap your line.
  • If the enemy infantry are Archers, concentrate. You can't let them win the shooting battle by getting multiple shots on your Archers; just one or two lost Archers and your formation is toast if you intersperse.
  • If the enemy infantry are Elite Foot, a Cannae formation is a good solution (as above with Elephants).
  • If the enemy infantry are Horde, close your eyes when making up your formation -- it doesn't matter. Victory will be yours.
DK
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