Fantasy Playtest # 5 Dark Elves vs Kushan

Discussion of the upcoming fantasy version of TRIUMPH!
Post Reply
skc
Squire
Posts: 112
Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2021 3:00 pm

Fantasy Playtest # 5 Dark Elves vs Kushan

Post by skc » Wed Jan 05, 2022 6:42 pm

Dark Elves vs Kushan
In our 5th Triumph!Fantasy playtest my Dark Elves took on my daughter and son with their Kushan.

Initially Elven Knights and Jav Cav, overwhelmed the Bow Cavalry on the Kushan left.
The Witch Elves with 'Up,' again attacked the enemy camp. However this time, my opponents had wisely garrisoned with Spear, and by game end the Witch Warband had failed to take the camp.

The final loss to the Kushan came when Elven Heavy Foot destroyed a Cataphract, and after a few failed attempts, 'Morathi' using her devastating "MindBlast" finally forced back some Cataphract stands and took out a Light Foot on the Kushan center. Game over and an Elven victory: 18:8

Query:
1. As my daughter pointed out, is it fair to pit Fantasy vs Human?
I explained that Fantasy paid the extra points for their 'magic' and that the point structure should help balance things out. (I think having Kushan the points cost of their Cataphracts and Elephant made their army physically small.)
Anyway next playtest I will try to pit both my Fantasy armies against each other.
2. 'Up' still seems to strong. I have had some discussion with David re this but still wonder after using this a few games, that maybe make it 1pt per Stand or even a Command Point per Stand (not Group) to return/leave the battle?
Attachments
Main Battle lines.jpg
Main Battle lines.jpg (281.8 KiB) Viewed 257 times
Horse Bow attempt Flank failed.jpg
Horse Bow attempt Flank failed.jpg (582.05 KiB) Viewed 257 times
Elven Jav Cav outflank.jpg
Elven Jav Cav outflank.jpg (343.06 KiB) Viewed 257 times
Center Crumbles.jpg
Center Crumbles.jpg (611.37 KiB) Viewed 257 times
Last edited by skc on Wed Jan 05, 2022 6:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
David Kuijt
Grand Master WGC
Posts: 1194
Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2016 4:44 pm
Location: MD suburbs of Washington DC

Re: Fantasy Playtest # 5 Dark Elves vs Kushan

Post by David Kuijt » Wed Jan 05, 2022 6:54 pm

Sounds like a great time!
skc wrote:
Wed Jan 05, 2022 6:42 pm
Query:
1. As my daughter pointed out, is it fair to pit Fantasy vs Human?
I explained that Fantasy paid the extra points for their 'magic' and that the point structure should help balance things out. (I think having Kushan the points cost of their Cataphracts and Elephant made their army physically small.)
Anyway next playtest I will try to pit both my Fantasy armies against each other.
I don't really understand your question. What makes an army "Human" in your mind? If your Kushan army had been Trolls (classed as Elephants in the game) instead of Elephants, it would have been a very nice Easterling army under the rulership of Sauron -- that would have been a fantasy army. But the stands you would play the game with would be identical. So I don't really understand your question -- could you rephrase it?
skc wrote:
Wed Jan 05, 2022 6:42 pm
2. 'Up' still seems to strong. I have had some discussion with David re this but still wonder after using this a few games, that maybe make it 1pt per Stand or even a Command Point per Stand (not Group) to return/leave the battle?
1 cp per stand would encourage players to split up their troops coming down from Up, because there would be no motivation for coming down in groups.

Are you paying the extra point for being out of command control when they move?
DK
skc
Squire
Posts: 112
Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2021 3:00 pm

Re: Fantasy Playtest # 5 Dark Elves vs Kushan

Post by skc » Wed Jan 05, 2022 7:20 pm

1. As my daughter pointed out, is it fair to pit Fantasy vs Human?
I explained that Fantasy paid the extra points for their 'magic' and that the point structure should help balance things out. (I think having Kushan the points cost of their Cataphracts and Elephant made their army physically small.)
[/quote]

I don't really understand your question. What makes an army "Human" in your mind? If your Kushan army had been Trolls (classed as Elephants in the game) instead of Elephants, it would have been a very nice Easterling army under the rulership of Sauron -- that would have been a fantasy army. But the stands you would play the game with would be identical. So I don't really understand your question -- could you rephrase it?

Its simple. She regarded her Kushan as 'Human' as they did not have any of the magic effects the Dark Elves had. She felt this was unfair...But as I pointed out to her this was not, as the magic the Dark Elves had, cost them more points, making their army smaller/less strong than they could be. (DBM/DBA player. I don't think she's quite grasped the Triumph! Fantasy Battlecard points system.).

2. 'Up' still seems to strong. I have had some discussion with David re this but still wonder after using this a few games, that maybe make it 1pt per Stand or even a Command Point per Stand (not Group) to return/leave the battle?
[/quote]

1 cp per stand would encourage players to split up their troops coming down from Up, because there would be no motivation for coming down in groups.
Yes it does seem too harsh, especially as 1 extra CP is needed anyway.

Maybe pay 1pt, not 1/2pt per stand to have Up?

Are you paying the extra point for being out of command control when they move?
[/quote]
If you mean the extra 1CP to come from Up. Yes.
User avatar
David Kuijt
Grand Master WGC
Posts: 1194
Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2016 4:44 pm
Location: MD suburbs of Washington DC

Re: Fantasy Playtest # 5 Dark Elves vs Kushan

Post by David Kuijt » Wed Jan 05, 2022 7:51 pm

skc wrote:
Wed Jan 05, 2022 7:20 pm
Its simple. She regarded her Kushan as 'Human' as they did not have any of the magic effects the Dark Elves had. She felt this was unfair...But as I pointed out to her this was not, as the magic the Dark Elves had, cost them more points, making their army smaller/less strong than they could be. (DBM/DBA player. I don't think she's quite grasped the Triumph! Fantasy Battlecard points system.).
Ah, right. Let her make her own army list, then. She can have any effect she can pay for.
DK
skc
Squire
Posts: 112
Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2021 3:00 pm

Re: Fantasy Playtest # 5 Dark Elves vs Kushan

Post by skc » Thu Jan 06, 2022 2:54 pm

I've already given her a List and a Dark Elf army, made from my excess figures, to try encourage her back.
She played a lot in her teens, all over the country on the DBM competition circuit, but since she went to University and has been working, has lost time and interest I think.
Post Reply