Magnesia with TRIUMPH!

A place to discuss historical battles, scenarios and campaigns
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HoaryCenturion
Levy
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Magnesia with TRIUMPH!

Post by HoaryCenturion » Fri Apr 01, 2022 12:06 pm

Hello there -

Has anyone tried to stage the 190 BC battle using TRIUMPH or GRAND TRIUMPH?

May I ask for your OBs?

Did you draft any special rules or new Battle Cards?

Thanks in advance for your time and advice.

Chris
RogerCooper
Levy
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Re: Magnesia with TRIUMPH!

Post by RogerCooper » Sat Apr 30, 2022 3:11 am

Looking at the Wikipedia article what strikes me is that the OOB described by ancient authors does not fit the battle narrative. The Seleucids supposedly had more than a 2-1 numerical superiority but the battle narrative seems to show roughly equal forces. As our sources are Roman, I would take 30,000 as reasonable figure for the Roman forces but I would cut the Seleucid forces to 40,000 to 50,000.

For converting historical battles, I assume that unit of infantry has twice as many people as a unit of cavalry. I could probably draw up a detailed force list if you want.

I don't see much special happening in the battle except the Roman seemed to perform better. Perhaps a +1 to Roman command rolls
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Rod
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Re: Magnesia with TRIUMPH!

Post by Rod » Sat Apr 30, 2022 6:47 pm

This is on my list to do as part of my current painting project, but I have not gotten to an OOB yet.

I would start with roughly equal force sizes though.
RogerCooper
Levy
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Re: Magnesia with TRIUMPH!

Post by RogerCooper » Sun May 01, 2022 1:43 am

Here is my OOB for Grand Triumph, with a scale each unit being 1000 infantry or 500 cavalry. I have a minimum of 1 unit of each named contingent and a 40% reduction of the Seleucid army

Romans
22 x Elite Foot (Roman Legions)
7 x Javelin Cavalry (Roman Cavalry)
2 x Javelin Cavalry (Pergamene Cavalry)
2 x Light Foot (Achaeans)
2 x Light Foot (Pergamene)
1 x Light Foot (Thracians)
1 x Skirmishers (Cretan Archers)
1 x Skirmishers (Illyrian Archers)
1 x Pike (Macedonians)
1 x Elephant (-1 in close combat)
1 x Light Spear (Pergamene)

Seleucids
1 x Skirmishers (Cyrtian Slingers)
2 x Skirmishers (Cretans)
2 x Skirmishers (Mysian Archers)
4 x Skirmishers (Psiloi)
1 x Archers (Elymaean Archers)
2 x Light Foot (Peltasts)
3 x Light Foot (Illyrians)
1 x Light Foot (Carians)
1 x Light Foot (Cilicians)
2 x Light Foot
3 x Javelin Cavalry (Galatians)
1 x Javelin Cavalry (Tarentines)
1 x Knights (Royal Cavalry)
1 x Knights (Agema)
7 x Cataphracts
1 x Elephant
10 x Pikes (Phalanx)
1 x Warriors (Galatians)
1 x Warriors (Atians)
1 x Elite Foot (Argyraspides)
1 x Horse Archers (Dahae Horse Archers)
1 x Battle Taxi (Scythed Chariots)
1 x Bad Horse (Arab Camel Archers)
4 x Horde (Camp Guards)

1. The battlefield was fairly open
2. Both sides fought hard in this battle and an organized retreat occurred. 24 points of losses are required for a defeat
3. The Romans were well-coordinated. +1 to command die rolls
4. Both sides had fortified camps
5. Roman Elephants were inferior in numbers and quality. They are -1 in close combat and cost only 3
6. Seleucids were never able to deploy their Scythed Chariots for attack so they are considered Battle Taxis
RogerCooper
Levy
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Re: Magnesia with TRIUMPH!

Post by RogerCooper » Sun May 01, 2022 2:49 pm

I create a Google Spreadsheet which you can use the test different assumptions. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing.

I thought that the sources probably omitted Pergamene close order infantry on the right flank as it seems strange to have a right flank composed entirely of light troops and cavalry, so added 10,000 spearmen. This allowed me to reduce the adjustment of the Seleucids down to only 30%.

This spreadsheet could be easily modified for other battles.
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