Khurasan 15mm West Sudanese Range

A place to share information about figures and other models
User avatar
FanatiChris
Levy
Posts: 34
Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2017 1:00 am

Khurasan 15mm West Sudanese Range

Postby FanatiChris » Wed Nov 22, 2017 4:00 pm

A fanatastic new West Sudanese range from Khurasan with extensive codes right down to stampeding cattle. Check them out at http://khurasanminiatures.tripod.com/west-sudanese.html

User avatar
David Kuijt
Grand Master WGC
Posts: 540
Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2016 4:44 pm
Location: MD suburbs of Washington DC

Re: Khurasan 15mm West Sudanese Range

Postby David Kuijt » Wed Nov 22, 2017 4:17 pm

Awesome! Triumph has like 10 Sub-Saharan African lists, but until now there weren't any great ranges of figures supporting those lists.
DK

Spencer
Levy
Posts: 32
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2016 11:37 am

Re: Khurasan 15mm West Sudanese Range

Postby Spencer » Wed Nov 22, 2017 6:20 pm

Those figs all look great! I got excited when I saw the Cataphracts. Sadly I have not been able to find them in meshwesh....looking under the Sahel Africa theme lists.

User avatar
David Kuijt
Grand Master WGC
Posts: 540
Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2016 4:44 pm
Location: MD suburbs of Washington DC

Re: Khurasan 15mm West Sudanese Range

Postby David Kuijt » Wed Nov 22, 2017 7:12 pm

Spencer wrote:Those figs all look great! I got excited when I saw the Cataphracts. Sadly I have not been able to find them in meshwesh....looking under the Sahel Africa theme lists.


That's because calling "West Sudanese" an army list, is like calling "Western Europe" an army list. It's an artifact of Phil's nomenclature, not an actual region or army.

Sahel Africa (the whole category) is what Phil calls West Sudanese and vice versa. Except for the few army lists that are in or above the Sahara but are in the Sahel Africa category because they fought there a lot -- Murabits (Almoravids), Tuaregs, etc.

So army lists that would be appropriate for the Khurasan range are:
  • Kanem-Bornu
  • Early Hausa States
  • Hausa States
  • Songhai
  • Songhai Empire
  • Sao City-States
  • Fante and Gold Coast Peoples
  • Mali
  • Empire of Mali
  • Ghana
  • Takrur and Wolof
  • Fulani

The Sao City-States are south of Kanem/Bornu and were gradually conquered by Kanem/Bornu as it gained power; the Fante and Gold Coast Peoples were south of the Sahel (which is a region of a particular climate that crosses all of Africa south of the Sahara, essentially). Both of them we don't have much data on how they looked, although the Khurasan figs are probably as good as anything else. The rest are great for the "West Sudanese" figures by Khurasan. IIRC, Kanem/Bornu is where the Cataphracts are used; they also have a huge wad of close order spear bearers (Heavy Foot) rather than Bow Levy as their main military arm.
DK

Spencer
Levy
Posts: 32
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2016 11:37 am

Re: Khurasan 15mm West Sudanese Range

Postby Spencer » Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:45 pm

Yup, Kanem/Bornu have one Cataphracts in the later period. Thanks for all that info David....very helpful.

User avatar
FanatiChris
Levy
Posts: 34
Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2017 1:00 am

Re: Khurasan 15mm West Sudanese Range

Postby FanatiChris » Wed Nov 22, 2017 11:49 pm

Remember seeing a display at the Smithsonian few years ago of arms and armor from the Mali, Benin, Kanem/Bornu, Songhai and other west African kingdoms associated with the ascendancy of Timbuktu. There were very elaborate and highly decorated weapons, helmets and body armor and horse tack in particular for those rich enough to afford it.

Eureka's 15mm Abbyssinian range has quilted barded horse that actually work well for west African gulams, although not sure how well they mix. See: http://eurekamin.com.au/product_info.php?cPath=87_102_692&products_id=9193

and here are some modern day Hausa reenactors on barded horse for painting inspiration: http://diasporicroots.tumblr.com/post/73252710308/african-history-the-cavalry-of-kanem-bornu-and

Irregular's Kingdom of Benin range is actually not bad either...and their armored infantry come closer to what I saw at the Smithsonian. See: http://www.irregularminiatures.co.uk/15mmRanges/15mmKingdomofBenin.htm Can't vouch for mixing though.

Only thing I haven't found...hobbled Songhai archers in the classic one leg bound (kneeling or standing) pose recorded by the Spanish.

Andreas Johansson
Squire
Posts: 120
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2017 8:40 pm

Re: Khurasan 15mm West Sudanese Range

Postby Andreas Johansson » Mon Nov 27, 2017 10:59 am

David Kuijt wrote: IIRC, Kanem/Bornu is where the Cataphracts are used

I'm not sure about the Triumph! time-frame, but in latter times "cataphracts" were used across the entire central and eastern Sahel from Sokoto to Ethiopia.

The DBMM list notes for "Western Sudanese" suggest it covers the entire Sahel, but in this case the name is actually more accurate - it's basically based on sources for the western half, from the Lake Chad region to the Atlantic. The only DBX list for the region between Kanem-Bornu and Nubia is the DBR list for "Funj Empire" (also known as the Sultanate of Sennar).

User avatar
David Kuijt
Grand Master WGC
Posts: 540
Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2016 4:44 pm
Location: MD suburbs of Washington DC

Re: Khurasan 15mm West Sudanese Range

Postby David Kuijt » Mon Nov 27, 2017 11:56 am

Andreas Johansson wrote:The only DBX list for the region between Kanem-Bornu and Nubia is the DBR list for "Funj Empire" (also known as the Sultanate of Sennar).


Right, that starts at 1502, outside the Triumph timeframe. (Date based on Wikipedia -- no idea what the DBR list looks like, as I don't have that)
DK

User avatar
David Kuijt
Grand Master WGC
Posts: 540
Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2016 4:44 pm
Location: MD suburbs of Washington DC

Re: Khurasan 15mm West Sudanese Range

Postby David Kuijt » Mon Nov 27, 2017 12:17 pm

FanatiChris wrote:Remember seeing a display at the Smithsonian few years ago of arms and armor from the Mali, Benin, Kanem/Bornu, Songhai and other west African kingdoms associated with the ascendancy of Timbuktu. There were very elaborate and highly decorated weapons, helmets and body armor and horse tack in particular for those rich enough to afford it.


Yes, I saw that exhibit as well. Sadly lacking in general knowledge (makeup of armies) and mostly focused on the exceptional and wealthy, but that's true of museum shows everywhere (unless you find tens of thousands of pottery soldiers or something). Also mostly post-gunpowder; it is difficult to find sources for pre-1500 warfare in Africa because almost all the written sources are focused on the situation right before the Colonial period, which is centuries later.

FanatiChris wrote:Irregular's Kingdom of Benin range is actually not bad either...and their armored infantry come closer to what I saw at the Smithsonian. See: http://www.irregularminiatures.co.uk/15mmRanges/15mmKingdomofBenin.htm Can't vouch for mixing though.


I like those. I believe that Benin is covered by the "Fante and Gold Coast" army list, like their Oyo Empire opponents. Note that the Kingdom of Benin in the late Medieval period does not correspond very well (geographically) to the modern Republic of Benin.
DK

Andreas Johansson
Squire
Posts: 120
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2017 8:40 pm

Re: Khurasan 15mm West Sudanese Range

Postby Andreas Johansson » Mon Nov 27, 2017 3:07 pm

David Kuijt wrote:
Andreas Johansson wrote:The only DBX list for the region between Kanem-Bornu and Nubia is the DBR list for "Funj Empire" (also known as the Sultanate of Sennar).


Right, that starts at 1502, outside the Triumph timeframe. (Date based on Wikipedia -- no idea what the DBR list looks like, as I don't have that)

FWIW, the DBR list starts in AD 1504, and largely consists of Superior Sipahi and Ordinary Light Horse, with optional contingents of rubbish foot javelinmen. Something like 4-8 Cataphracts, 2-6 Jav Cav, 0-8 Rabble in in Triumph! terms.

Whether armies of the area in the preceeding period were similar I have no idea.


Return to “Miniatures Review and Figure Questions”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest