Early Imperial Roman Auxilia as Raiders

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MarkusB
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Early Imperial Roman Auxilia as Raiders

Post by MarkusB » Fri Jan 06, 2017 11:26 pm

It seems generally accepted that Auxilia was better suited than legionaries to fight those troops which are classified as warriors or warbands in Triumph! (or at least more affordable to lose). But raiders are neither: they cost the same points as legions do, and they are slightly worse for fighting warriors and warbands (both are shattered if outscored, both fight at +3 in difficult terrain, but in the open legions fight at +5 instead of +4 ).

What am I missing?
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David Kuijt
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Re: Early Imperial Roman Auxilia as Raiders

Post by David Kuijt » Sat Jan 07, 2017 1:20 pm

MarkusB wrote: What am I missing?
I can't find my rules copy, but my memory is that Raiders are not supposed to be shattered by Warband/Warrior when in difficult terrain. That's something we decided like in the September/October timeframe; did it not make it into the rules?
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Re: Early Imperial Roman Auxilia as Raiders

Post by Fab » Sat Jan 07, 2017 8:18 pm

No, they are shattered if beaten by warband and warriors just like Elite Foot, Heavy Foot, Horde, Pavisiers, Pike and Spear (62.2).
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Re: Early Imperial Roman Auxilia as Raiders

Post by David Kuijt » Sat Jan 07, 2017 10:25 pm

Fab wrote:No, they are shattered if beaten by warband and warriors just like Elite Foot, Heavy Foot, Horde, Pavisiers, Pike and Spear (62.2).
Look for that coming in the next version, then. The decision was made last quarter of 2016; either it didn't make it into the print version or my memory is faulty and we decided that early November.
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Re: Early Imperial Roman Auxilia as Raiders

Post by Fab » Sun Jan 08, 2017 9:56 am

Just looking at the tables and without any test match, I would use Light Foot against Warband/Warrior.

They are not shattered if beaten, cost less, have more speed, the same combat factors and do not suffer the -1 in difficult terrain.

These are my Auxilia Palatina !

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Re: Early Imperial Roman Auxilia as Raiders

Post by Snowcat » Sun Jan 08, 2017 11:10 am

Fab wrote:Just looking at the tables and without any test match, I would use Light Foot against Warband/Warrior.

They are not shattered if beaten, cost less, have more speed, the same combat factors and do not suffer the -1 in difficult terrain.

These are my Auxilia Palatina !

My two cents
Just as long as they don't share the same rules/factors as Light Foot against Caledonian light chariots - or there'll be a whole bunch of Roman auxiliaries spinning in their graves. Just sayin'. ;)

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Re: Early Imperial Roman Auxilia as Raiders

Post by Fab » Sun Jan 08, 2017 11:27 am

When fighting chariots I leave them at home and take Raiders ! ;)

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Re: Early Imperial Roman Auxilia as Raiders

Post by MarkusB » Sun Jan 08, 2017 10:50 pm

David Kuijt wrote:I can't find my rules copy, but my memory is that Raiders are not supposed to be shattered by Warband/Warrior when in difficult terrain. That's something we decided like in the September/October timeframe; did it not make it into the rules?
Aha, that makes sense. I still think that auxilia should be more advantageous than legions to send against barbarian infantry even in the open, but it's not an huge deal considering the bigger picture...
Fab wrote: They are not shattered if beaten, cost less, have more speed, the same combat factors and do not suffer the -1 in difficult terrain.
They have +3 in CC vs foot in open terrain, as opposed to raiders' +4... But the point is that you only get a good share of roman light infantry from the turning point of the 2nd punic war to the end of the polybian roman list (up to 4 stands of velites). You don't get to choose in the EIR list, as you have 2-6 stands of raiders (auxilia) and 0-2 stands of light infantry (probably some other clientes). Later on (post-Severan) you get around the same number of Raiders and LInf. So, the main problem is with the EIR list- which fought overenthusiastic barbarian troops quite a bit.
Snowcat wrote:Just as long as they don't share the same rules/factors as Light Foot against Caledonian light chariots - or there'll be a whole bunch of Roman auxiliaries spinning in their graves. Just sayin'. ;)
Caledonians light chariots are battle taxis; I didn't try any list with lots of battle taxis yet (just a lone stand representing the old-fashioned, exhibitionist general of a warlike gallic horde in 220 BC), but they don't seem too scary for light infantry... Did I play them (well, OK: it) wrong?
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Re: Early Imperial Roman Auxilia as Raiders

Post by Snowcat » Mon Jan 09, 2017 1:28 am

MarkusB wrote:Caledonians light chariots are battle taxis; I didn't try any list with lots of battle taxis yet (just a lone stand representing the old-fashioned, exhibitionist general of a warlike gallic horde in 220 BC), but they don't seem too scary for light infantry... Did I play them (well, OK: it) wrong?
Ah yes, I forgot about that! Good call. :)

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Re: Early Imperial Roman Auxilia as Raiders

Post by David Kuijt » Mon Jan 09, 2017 3:05 am

MarkusB wrote: But the point is that you only get a good share of roman light infantry from the turning point of the 2nd punic war to the end of the polybian roman list (up to 4 stands of velites). You don't get to choose in the EIR list, as you have 2-6 stands of raiders (auxilia) and 0-2 stands of light infantry (probably some other clientes). Later on (post-Severan) you get around the same number of Raiders and LInf. So, the main problem is with the EIR list- which fought overenthusiastic barbarian troops quite a bit.
Don't get confused with the name "Auxilia" -- the EIR period auxilia were more heavily armored than Viking Huscarles. And better trained. And the main forces fighting against Gallic warband/warrior are Camillans, Polybians, and Marian Romans -- the Marians have nothing but Elite Foot and the rare Heavy Foot. EIR period auxilia are not heavy "Light Foot" -- they are really slightly more mobile Elite Foot in the Marian tradition, with the same armor and shields that the Marian Elite Foot had.

The EIR list fought a bunch of Germans and British and Dacians, sure. But with the change mentioned earlier (Warband/Warrior don't shatter Raiders in difficult terrain) the EIR list should be able to fight with relatively even chances against them. And importantly, do so in historical ways.
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