forum.wgcwar.com

The Austrasian Frankish list from 496 - 639 AD covers the period of the Merovingians. During that time the Frankish army did emerge from a warrior army to a spearman army. After the victory of 486 Clovis did integrate gallo-raman fighters in his army. As Roman border guards the Franks & also the Burgundians did safe the border against the savage Germans like the Alemanni. In 496 the Franks defeated the Alemanni. After that time the Frankish cavalry did fight as knights but not as javelin cavalry. In 534 the Franks conquered also the Burgundians.
Later during the Frankish campaign against Samo in 631 the Franks did no longer fight as tribal fierce infantry warriors and no longer with Alemanni noble horsemen...

I have looked at this with our Frankish figure line in mind and it does seem cloudy to me.

We have a Clovis figure in the T&R figure line. We also have Saxons and I’ve lined them all up with the Franks and compared them. So I have a general feel for what we can do with our figures in that period.

It would be great if someone could write an article with the appropriate art work showing when things changed like I’ve seen with armor and helmets in the 1100-1300 period. But I’m not sure the historical resources exist to do that.

...i am not talking about miniature ranges but about writen History. In the Notitia dignitatum you can read much about the late roman warfare and also about the border troops in Gaul. But you are right, much of facts of that period are covered by fog...

I appreciate you bringing up the topic to discuss, it is helpful in practically trying to apply it to figures in forming an army.

Are you agreeing with the years on the lists? Early Frankish, etc. 250 AD to 584 AD and Austrasian Frankish
496 AD to 639 AD. Or are you making a critique or are you agreeing withthe the basic difference in the lists, which is the evolution of the jav cavalry to knights?

Thanks.

...javelin cavalry vs knights is a question of definition. In DBA lighg cavalry can be armed with bows or javelin. Under DBM(M) rulws there are distingtions by quality. Under Art de la Guerre there are no knights before about 1000AD. An other definition is to use a stirrup to be able to fight as knight.
In the roman period Sarmates & Alan did fight as lancers. Germanic tribes did start as javelin cavalry. In the Meshwesh lists early Ostrogoths are starting as knights. But it was the contact with the Sarmates to allow them to fight as lancers. The Alan list starts also as javelin cavalry. But that people are Sarmates too.
Finaly the Lithuanians are also javelin cavalry. That area had traditionaly acces to the steppe people and Lithuanians could destroy Teotonic knights...