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German tribes

Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 10:02 pm
by vodnik
What German tribes do you mean if you write Early German
115 BC to 250 AD ?
What German tribes do you mean if you write Old Saxon, Frisian, etc. 250 AD to 804 AD & Early Frankish, etc. 250 AD to 584 AD?

Re: German tribes

Posted: Sun Mar 31, 2019 3:29 am
by FanatiChris
For pre-250 AD, take your pick: ... and_tribes.

Saxons are asserted to be a confederation of the Chauci, Angrivarii and Cherusci.

Frisians were the Frisii.

Franks were another tribal amalgamation. My fav. Franks are the Salian Franks, by contrast to the Rhineland or Ripurian Franks. The Salians (or Salii) according to Tactitus were immigrants from the Cherusi who settled in the lands that gave rise to the Batavians, but were pushed into the Rhine coastal delta by the Chamavi (or possibly the Quadi), and according to Zosimus, later migrated across the Roman border to settle in Toxandria by the Emperor Julian, not too far from where they had originally started from in Batavia.

Re: German tribes

Posted: Sun Mar 31, 2019 8:09 am
by Andreas Johansson
FanatiChris wrote:
Sun Mar 31, 2019 3:29 am
Frisians were the Frisii.
That may not be the case: Frisia appears to have been largely abandoned during late Antiquity, and the people who eventually resettled it needn't have been descendants of the original inhabitants. To quote the WP page on the Frisii:
The lands of the Frisii were largely abandoned by c. 400 due to Migration wars, climatic deterioration and flooding caused by sea level rise. They lay empty for one or two centuries, when changing environmental and political conditions made the region habitable again. At that time, settlers that came to be known as 'Frisians' repopulated the coastal regions. Medieval and later accounts of 'Frisians' refer to these 'new Frisians' rather than to the ancient Frisii.[

Re: German tribes

Posted: Sun Mar 31, 2019 8:28 am
by vodnik
The periode before 250AD is OK for me. But there are 2 main groups in the later periode; old saxon as the first group and early franks in the second group. Both groups are not specified in detail. In DBMM there is a main group specified as; Early Frankish, Alamanni, Quadi, Suevi, Rugian or Turcilingi. But the Meshwesh lists has separate entries for; Quadi & Alamanni. There are no entries for Suevi & Rugian. So that tribes are Frankish? Correct? For example to field Suevi against Visigoth in Spain i can use the early frankish list?