North-Western American 1100 AD to 1770 AD

[Bill Hupp]

Any timing on updating this list? I just ordered 2 Tlingit armies from Eureka.

A trip to the Royal BC Museum in Victoria a couple of years ago got me very excited about this warrior culture. (They also had a great traveling exhibit on Vikings at the time and the similarities in the water/mountain/warlike cultures was not lost on me.)

https://www.royalbcmuseum.bc.ca/collect ... gy-objects

A great museum with fun exhibits if you get a chance to visit.

Bill

[David Kuijt]

Any timing on updating this list? I just ordered 2 Tlingit armies from Eureka.

A trip to the Royal BC Museum in Victoria a couple of years ago got me very excited about this warrior culture. (They also had a great traveling exhibit on Vikings at the time and the similarities in the water/mountain/warlike cultures was not lost on me.)

https://www.royalbcmuseum.bc.ca/collect ... gy-objects

A great museum with fun exhibits if you get a chance to visit.

One of my favorite museums; I've visited it perhaps 40 times -- My family has ancestral land maybe 30 minutes from there, where my father is semi-retired.

Right now the priority is the high-quality hardcopy rulebook; we're working on it this weekend.

[Vic]

I concur - I have a Tlingit army that I'd like to adapt to Triumph!, too. Consulting Meswesh I deduce that there's a plan for a major reworking of North American lists that has piqued my interest. I'll be watching the lists to see what they look like when they are finished.

[Bill Hupp]

I guessed bow levy when ordering figures.

Vic, awesome picture/logo.

Bill

[David Kuijt]

I guessed bow levy when ordering figures.

Vic, awesome picture/logo.

Bill

Some bow levy, but lots of other stuff. The guys in wooden helmets and armor are particularly cool. There are some light spear, a bunch of other things.

[Bill Hupp]

DK,

What size battle (numbers of troops) is the right battle to picture when thinking army composition for a Tinglit army? It's hard for me to picture this above a skrimish level engagement.

Bill

[David Kuijt]

What size battle (numbers of troops) is the right battle to picture when thinking army composition for a Tinglit army? It's hard for me to picture this above a skrimish level engagement.

Same as the Vikings, more or less. The parallels to the Vikings are quite striking -- village sizes were similar, their ships were comparable, as was their penchant for raiding. The Haida raided for loot and slaves as far south as Mexico, for example, and they were coming from Haida Gwaii (used to be called the Queen Charlotte Islands, right up near the southern border of Alaska). The Vikings would have been hard put to amass an army of more than a few hundred through most of their raiding period (the typical Viking ship had less than 60 men). Although archaeological investigation is still developing, the density of food resources along the NW Coast is probably significantly greater than that in Scandinavia in the 8th through 10th centuries, which means the total population was likely larger than that of the Vikings as well. Their cultures and economies were quite complex.

Of course the devastation of Smallpox through the indigenous tribes made it easy for Europeans to miss (or dismiss) all that. Between 1876 and 1885 it is estimated that 90% of the aboriginal population of the coast died.

As a note regarding the Vikings, in the battle of Ashdown (871 AD) there were two Viking Kings and five Earls (Jarls) on the Viking side, and all combined they mustered something less than a thousand men (maybe 800 or so). So not unreasonable to estimate that the personal warbands of the Viking leadership were only one or two ships worth (say 30-60 men), except for the Kings who might have had six to eight ships (say up to 250 or 300 men). Quite comparable to those of NW Coastal village war leaders.

Of course, these armies aren't very large on the grand scale of things (as you say, barely larger than skirmish gaming) -- but then, almost all the battles fought in England from Rome leaving until Edward Longshanks would have been between armies no larger, and we have army lists for thirty armies in that region and period.

[David Kuijt]

Northern Maritime Nations

Metadata: Forest, Invasion 4/Maneuver 2 if Haida, Tlingit, Tsimshian or Lekwiltok Kwakiutl; Invasion 2/Maneuver 1 if others.

This list includes people living along the Pacific coast from Vancouver Island to the southern coast of Alaska, including the Bella Bella, Eyak, Haida, Haisla, Heiltsuk, Kwakiutl, Ooweekeno, Tlingit and Tsimshian nations. The Haida and Tlingit were known to paddle hundreds of miles by sea-going canoe in order to raid wealthy villages for slaves. The Tsimshian controlled the supply of Eulachon or Candlefish, whose edible oil was used by all coastal tribes, and frequently fought to maintain that monopoly. The Lekwiltok Kwakiutl were enthusiastic headhunters who frequently attacked nations to the south. All but slave classes practiced head-binding in infancy, which gave adults a flat-headed appearance; this practice was common to almost all the people of the region, and was also common among the Maya. Common weapons included bone clubs, stone- and copper-tipped axes and lances, metal double-ended short-swords, bows, arrows and javelins, sometimes thrown with the aid of atlatls.

[List isn't finished, but the above is the color text supporting the lists]

[Bill Hupp]

Thanks DK. Very helpful.

Bill

[Vic]

Ah, very interesting! Looking forward to the list being ready.