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The Parthian army list has 1-4 stands of Cataphracts, with 0-1 Armored Camelry allowed on the strength of Herodian's account of Nisibis AD 217.

Now, the problem is that the battle-card says "The Charging Camelry and Armored Camelry battle cards must be applied to all of the stands in a troop entry if applied to any (i.e., all or none)", so if you take the Armored Camelry you can't have any regular horseback cataphracts, but Herodian is explicit that there were both horseback and camelborne cataphracts at the battle.

Andreas Johansson wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 05, 2022 7:01 am

The Parthian army list has 1-4 stands of Cataphracts, with 0-1 Armored Camelry allowed on the strength of Herodian's account of Nisibis AD 217.

Now, the problem is that the battle-card says "The Charging Camelry and Armored Camelry battle cards must be applied to all of the stands in a troop entry if applied to any (i.e., all or none)", so if you take the Armored Camelry you can't have any regular horseback cataphracts, but Herodian is explicit that there were both horseback and camelborne cataphracts at the battle.

Nice to hear from you again, Andreas -- it's been many months, IIRC.

Much of the "all or none" wording has been removed because the army list limitations cover it. In this case I suspect that combining "Charging Camelry" and "Armored Camelry" into the same battle card (since they are nearly identical) has caused some problems due to the army lists (Tuaregs should all be charging camelry; Parthian armored cavalry should just be 0-1 stand of the normal set of cataphracts).

I'll take a look at it.

David Kuijt wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 05, 2022 2:06 pm

Nice to hear from you again, Andreas -- it's been many months, IIRC.

Thanks. I'm doing fine but have had little time for wargaming of any kind this year.

Coming across this topic I've just realized that just maybe, I can now include one of my Armored Camelry stands in the Parthian army. Is this correct and if I include it, I see the Battlecard says -1 on close combat, but what are the initial factors vs foot & mounted? And how fast do they move? Are they the same as the Cataphracts but with -1 on combat?

Or do they exist at all except as something churned out by the Battlecard in Oasis & Dunes?

Please clarify as I have the model waiting to be used again.

skc wrote: ↑

Mon May 29, 2023 3:16 pm

Coming across this topic I've just realized that just maybe, I can now include one of my Armored Camelry stands in the Parthian army. Is this correct and if I include it, I see the Battlecard says -1 on close combat, but what are the initial factors vs foot & mounted? And how fast do they move? Are they the same as the Cataphracts but with -1 on combat?

Or do they exist at all except as something churned out by the Battlecard in Oasis & Dunes?

Please clarify as I have the model waiting to be used again.

It is a Cataphract, with the combat mod, and that they aren't affected by Oasis and Dunes (as terrain). I don't really understand your second question.

David,

Re: 2nd Question. I wondered if they only appear on table (as do say, Skythed Chariots) on using a Battlecard.
But I get it now. Move/Fight as Cataphract but with, as you say below. I'll drag out the old Armored camel model and maybe add to the Parthians. (& hope for dunes/oasis. Also will save an army point. (When I used them in DBM they had similar restriction/advantages)

Thanks as always for you prompt response.

"It is a Cataphract, with the combat mod, and that they aren't affected by Oasis and Dunes (as terrain). I don't really understand your second question."
"Or do they exist at all except as something churned out by the Battlecard in Oasis & Dunes?"

skc wrote: ↑

Tue May 30, 2023 6:06 am

David,

Re: 2nd Question. I wondered if they only appear on table (as do say, Skythed Chariots) on using a Battlecard.

Ah, I see. No, Scythed Chariots are unique that way. Scythed chariots created a significant design challenge -- representing them as a combat unit caused bizarre secondary effects. Armored camels (cataphracts) and charging camels (Tuaregs) are actual combat stands with unusual characteristics. Scythed chariots (and stampedes of cattle, camels, horses, or elephants) are an unpredictable one-shot battlefield effect, not a combat stand.

Yes good point re: Skythed Chariots. I put the stand on when generating the Battlecard and off again. Pretty 'hit and miss' troop type. (More 'miss,' although I once won a DBM tournament game with them) Many thanks for your prompt, well described, response.

Here's Skyth Chariot which just happens to be hitting Armored Camels from a 2013 DBM game.