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Hello again!
About to show an old friend Triumph and have been going over the terrain set up rules again.

I understand that a higher maneuver total will make you the “advantaged” player, you affect how much terrain, but why does a roll of 1 allow you to outflank the opponent? Is it to help balance the advantage?

I guess why would a highly maneuverable army (high roll) not be able to outflank a less maneuverable one?

Thanks again

To perform a flank march an army must roll under their own maneuver roll. It has nothing to do with the other army. So think of it as an army with a high maneuver roll will have a better chance of coordinating the meeting up of two separated forces at a given time and place. So Mongols will pull this off more often than others. Also, if they have a high maneuver they might win the terrain deployment and still get to do a flank march should they choose (once again a Mongol army would be a likely candidate).

The advantaged player (winner of the army vs army roll) has the advantage of choosing where the battle takes place by having some influence on the terrain. Lots of armies with historically low maneuver rolls did this, especially in their home turf think Hastings for example. The Saxon's won the maneuver roll and had the advantage in terrain deployment .

Flank marches were difficult at best and often had nothing to do with who picked the battlefield., sometimes they were just dumb luck too.

I see! I was concentrating on the 1 part but really that 1 is just everybody gets a chance to flank if you roll a 1, even if that means they lose the maneuver roll, and armies with the higher maneuver value will get to do it from skill (over luck).

Thanks!

greedo wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 24, 2022 3:31 pm

I see! I was concentrating on the 1 part but really that 1 is just everybody gets a chance to flank if you roll a 1, even if that means they lose the maneuver roll, and armies with the higher maneuver value will get to do it from skill (over luck).

Exactly. One of the Crusader victories over the Turks, going out towards the Holy Land, was just that the Turks were fighting them and didn't realize that there were more Crusaders as a separate group, arriving later. In our terms, a Flank March, but just dumb luck. Dorylaeum, I think?

Turks were definitely better maneuver, and they picked the terrain (battlefield). But even bad maneuvering armies sometimes get lucky.

David Kuijt wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 24, 2022 9:00 pm

greedo wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 24, 2022 3:31 pm

I see! I was concentrating on the 1 part but really that 1 is just everybody gets a chance to flank if you roll a 1, even if that means they lose the maneuver roll, and armies with the higher maneuver value will get to do it from skill (over luck).

Exactly. One of the Crusader victories over the Turks, going out towards the Holy Land, was just that the Turks were fighting them and didn't realize that there were more Crusaders as a separate group, arriving later. In our terms, a Flank March, but just dumb luck. Dorylaeum, I think?

Turks were definitely better maneuver, and they picked the terrain (battlefield). But even bad maneuvering armies sometimes get lucky.

Nice context! Just so happened the game I played today had the Carthaginians have a flank march, but completely lost maneuver by 6, so they ended up flanking into a pile of terrain (dictated by the Romans).