Skirmishers being doubled

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greedo
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Skirmishers being doubled

Post by greedo » Fri Feb 05, 2021 10:09 pm

Not really a question, but this was definitely a mind flip when I saw it demonstrated in the Hastings Videos and the Basics videos. These videos are GREAT.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zp6yfdtTqHs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WemM3b-Hqw4

The idea that having your skirmisher screen out front of the line, and that instead of hoping that they will beat the opponent and force them back as a way of disrupting the line, you're actually HOPING that they will get DOUBLED and will evade. When facing heavy infantry, they dance away and PULL the heavy foot forward out of formation. This was very much a mind flip, and makes me want to put my skirmishers out front, where they aught to be.

The skill then becomes having the screen just far enough that your main line can take advantage of the disruption before your opponent rolls higher activation and just moves the disrupted elements back into line.

Once again, great vids. Is there away to put them all into a single folder, or I guess I just subscribe to youtube channel :)

Chris
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Rod
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Re: Skirmishers being doubled

Post by Rod » Fri Feb 05, 2021 11:00 pm

I had to break them up do to File size, juts making them was really pushing my technical abilities.

But I am glad you like them.


And yes Skirmishers in Triumph are designed to Skirmish :)
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Bill Hupp
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Re: Skirmishers being doubled

Post by Bill Hupp » Sun Feb 07, 2021 8:04 pm

Chris,

I totally agree. The videos have moments in them where you see the tactical situation and say ah ha!

Skirmishers are definitely worth the price. You’ll note there are limited numbers in the army lists and I’m still learning how to use rabble and other open order troop types that are a ‘newer’ .
Bill Hupp
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greedo
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Re: Skirmishers being doubled

Post by greedo » Sun Feb 07, 2021 10:49 pm

Bill, I’ve always loved skirmishers so glad they have a good effect, although I was a little surprised that Roman Velites are classed as light troops. But I’m less sure about how to use those, so will have to learn. Light troops don’t get to evade from heavies, so should I put them out front or out to the side..?

Actually the multitude of new troops types is great. Each one has a slight difference in its stats, and reduce the number of “battle specific” exceptions that has to be made. I was confused at first and then made the link that there’s an open order and closed order version of each troop. I think the move to “open order” and “closed order” makes much more sense than the dbmm “fast” version of the similar troops. The battle cards are nice in that they allow for very specific things “flaming pigs!” Etc without clogging up the rules.
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Bill Hupp
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Re: Skirmishers being doubled

Post by Bill Hupp » Mon Feb 08, 2021 3:38 am

Chris,

I agree about the additional troop classes and the improvement in the open/closed order classifications. I really love the additional mounted classes. We have some greart Mongol figures in our Thistle & Rose line and the Horse Bow class really helps horse bow armies behave in historically appropriate ways.

As to Republican Roman armies, I had a similar first impression, but I think it is more about preconcieved notions that I have about how it 'should' work. We played the heck out of the SoA Battle Day Telamon using Grand Triumph! and I never really noticed an issue. But it could be the scale of the battle and units too.
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greedo
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Re: Skirmishers being doubled

Post by greedo » Mon Feb 08, 2021 4:55 pm

I get the feeling that Light Foot are the kind of "lurk in rough terrain" type javelin throwers like Thracians.
It's an interesting type. CF 3, doesn't have an evade type back off.
This tells me that they should definitely be held out of the line of battle, and kept either on the wings in terrain, or at least helping to extend the battleline. CF 3 isn't going to hold for long but it also isn't going to die immediately as long as it has backup, either from terrain, or from nearby heavy hitters.
They can pass through other elements, but only other open order elements. Will have to ponder this for the tactical use of LF...
JonathanJ
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Re: Skirmishers being doubled

Post by JonathanJ » Mon Feb 08, 2021 8:46 pm

Light foot are fast. At 5mu it is not too hard to achieve local numerical superiority. I've defeated heavier foot armies with light foot. They shouldn't be underestimated.
- Jonathan
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greedo
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Re: Skirmishers being doubled

Post by greedo » Mon Feb 08, 2021 10:40 pm

Hi Jonathan!
Oh I definitely think Light Foot are good, but just unsure tactically how to use them.
I know what to do for Heavy Infantry, & Skirmishers, but there's slight nuances for each of these troop types (very new to this game, but very enthusiastic!).

Light Spear and Light Foot, I'm sure there are subtle differences, but unsure exactly how to use them relative to other troops.
Elite Foot vs Heavy Foot, I get.
The same is true of Warband and Warriors.
Subtle differences, but not sure where to use them relative to each other.

Chris
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Re: Skirmishers being doubled

Post by skc » Wed May 12, 2021 3:42 pm

So nice to see that destroyed Skirmishers lose as their points value in Triumph!. One of the things I could not get used to in DBA, and thought totally unrealistic, was the equal value Skirmishers had to all other elements, in that loss of Skirmishers, like other elements, became 1/12th of the army loss. (for those who don't know, in DBA losses are counted as Elements rather than by points, and each army has the same amount of elements. Usually 12 each)
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greedo
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Re: Skirmishers being doubled

Post by greedo » Thu Jun 03, 2021 4:50 am

skc wrote:
Wed May 12, 2021 3:42 pm
So nice to see that destroyed Skirmishers lose as their points value in Triumph!. One of the things I could not get used to in DBA, and thought totally unrealistic, was the equal value Skirmishers had to all other elements, in that loss of Skirmishers, like other elements, became 1/12th of the army loss. (for those who don't know, in DBA losses are counted as Elements rather than by points, and each army has the same amount of elements. Usually 12 each)
Hey skc,
So the way they got around that in DBA 3.0 was to have the first element of double ranked elements count as two lost, but frankly points is easier. I had a house rule that the first ps you lose would be free, but again it’s a workaround that is done away with if you use points. That said skirmishers are quite pricey at 3 points each so non trivial to lose. But bow levy etc are only 2 points so much easier to lose!
Last edited by greedo on Fri Jun 04, 2021 5:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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