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Warriors - Attacks Petering Out...?
Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2016 12:18 pm
by Snowcat
Under the description for Warriors, it says: "Infantry relying on a fierce initial charge that can shatter close-order infantry. Their reliance on individual and group aggression means their attack peters out quickly if the enemy survives their initial charge."
However, I can't find anything in the rules that reflects this petering out after the initial charge.
??
Cheers
Re: Warriors - Attacks Petering Out...?
Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2016 1:20 pm
by David Kuijt
That's why they have a lower combat factor than heavy foot or elite foot, but have a shatter result against them. Fierce but no staying power plays out that way.
Re: Warriors - Attacks Petering Out...?
Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2016 1:23 pm
by Fab
It's even worse if you consider that an Heavy Foot performing an "initial charge" against a Warrior is, also in this case, shattered (with a bad dice throw).
To understand the mechanics of the game on this topic see
http://forum.wgcwar.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=55
David Kuijt wrote:
Post by David Kuijt ยป Thu Dec 29, 2016 2:50 am
1) it requires memory. We don't like that. Or markers, which is even worse.
2) I'd like that rule -- for a tactical game. 20 men to a stand, perhaps. Even better for a game that doesn't employ alternating turns (Igo-Ugo), such as one with some sort of "opportunity fire" or response move. But in a game where a turn represents 15 minutes or more, in an Igo-Ugo format, every single turn of "combat" represents multiple charges, countercharges, recoveries, pauses, and so on. We assume that every type of stand fights in the way that is most effective for it, without requiring orders to do so. In the real world no stand of knights ever stood and was attacked -- their power was in their charge, so if someone looked like they were going to attack them, they charged (often called a "countercharge"). But that "charge" is part of the combat results table, and rules like knights following up if they win in combat (regardless of whether they "attacked" or "defended"). Recovery, pauses, charging again -- that's also part of the combat results table.
DK
Cheers
Fab
Re: Warriors - Attacks Petering Out...?
Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2016 2:58 pm
by David Kuijt
It's a scale issue, fundamentally.
A "charge" is a very local, tactical maneuver executed within 10 meters of the enemy (for horse -- really 5 meters for foot) that takes 10 seconds or so. Possibly (depending upon your definition of what a "charge" is) also involving the 30 seconds of increasing threat as the major unit approaches the point where it might decide to charge.
Such charges, and counter-charges, and repulses, and periods of resting at distances from "just out of weapon's range" to five meters or so, are what make up the activities that are going on, invisibly, in any close combat, throughout the whole combat phase. Five, ten, maybe even a dozen times in a single turn. All reflected by the dice roll.
Fierce but not steady means lower combat factor but more shatter possibilities on the foe. Steady (implacable) means higher combat factor but fewer shatter possibilities on the foe.
Same comparison exists comparing how Cataphracts and Knights fight foot. Knights are more "high risk, high reward" and Cataphracts are more steady/implacable, but don't get results as quickly.
Re: Warriors - Attacks Petering Out...?
Posted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 10:47 am
by Snowcat
Ah, okay. I'm with you now. I was reading it quite literally (black and white), and missing some of the colour in between.
Cheers