Clarification of Flank Attacks - especially versus supported Pike

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HoaryCenturion
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Clarification of Flank Attacks - especially versus supported Pike

Post by HoaryCenturion » Tue Aug 24, 2021 9:46 am

Hello and Cheers,

Seeking clarification and or confirmation on how to handle melee situations involving supported pike units.

If YXX, where Y is the enemy stand and XX are the pike stands, a loss for the pikes would result in a fall back with no other problems, all else being equal and open terrain, etc.

If there is a situation where YXX
B

Where Y and B are enemy formations or units, having attacked the first unit of Pike [X] on its front and left flank. Pike with rear support is at +2, so flanked pike would be at +3 +2 -1 = +4 combat factor, correct?

If the pike formation is defeated (not doubled), then they are just pushed back or fall back, right?

Or, is it because of the enemy on the flank that one of the two units is destroyed, even if not doubled.

Explanation and reference to pages in rulebook would be most appreciated. Thanks!

Chris
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Rod
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Re: Clarification of Flank Attacks - especially versus supported Pike

Post by Rod » Tue Aug 24, 2021 11:31 am

There are two ways that B could be on the enemy flank and cause a -1.

One is diagramed in section 68.2 and 68.3 this is an overlap contact which does cause a -1 to the enemy. it does not prevent the enemy pike from falling back however.

The other is if it was in flank contact as described in 65.3. This condition also causes a -1 and prevents the unit in flank contact from falling back.

Hopefully that answered your question?

On top of that take a look at diagram F.4.b on page 56. It is possible to be in flank contact with both pike stands. If this is the case and it was B's turn than B could fight the rear stand first as a flank combat. That stand would fight as a -1 for flank and with no support.
HoaryCenturion
Levy
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Re: Clarification of Flank Attacks - especially versus supported Pike

Post by HoaryCenturion » Wed Aug 25, 2021 1:04 am

Thanks very much!

What took so long? ;)

I shall study this and the indicated sections/diagrams. Have a Greek v Macedonian scenario in the works, and well, there will be hoplites and pike phalanxes aplenty.

Thanks again.

Chris

p.s. Deleted accidental double post. :roll:
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greedo
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Re: Clarification of Flank Attacks - especially versus supported Pike

Post by greedo » Tue Aug 31, 2021 6:28 pm

Rod wrote:
Tue Aug 24, 2021 11:31 am
]
On top of that take a look at diagram F.4.b on page 56. It is possible to be in flank contact with both pike stands. If this is the case and it was B's turn than B could fight the rear stand first as a flank combat. That stand would fight as a -1 for flank and with no support.
So a quick question to this with regards to the frontal combat.
If I'm player A, can I choose who fights what? i.e. I choose that the front stand is fighting both the front fight + flank attack + rear support?
BUT, if I'm player B, could I then say ok, we fight the front combat, BUT my flank attack will instead attack the rear supporting element, which will now also have a flank attack to it (Since it's busy facing forward).

Does this negate the rear support provided to the front element, if I attack the rear supporting element?
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David Kuijt
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Re: Clarification of Flank Attacks - especially versus supported Pike

Post by David Kuijt » Tue Aug 31, 2021 6:51 pm

greedo wrote:
Tue Aug 31, 2021 6:28 pm
Rod wrote:
Tue Aug 24, 2021 11:31 am
]
On top of that take a look at diagram F.4.b on page 56. It is possible to be in flank contact with both pike stands. If this is the case and it was B's turn than B could fight the rear stand first as a flank combat. That stand would fight as a -1 for flank and with no support.
So a quick question to this with regards to the frontal combat.
If I'm player A, can I choose who fights what? i.e. I choose that the front stand is fighting both the front fight + flank attack + rear support?
BUT, if I'm player B, could I then say ok, we fight the front combat, BUT my flank attack will instead attack the rear supporting element, which will now also have a flank attack to it (Since it's busy facing forward).

Does this negate the rear support provided to the front element, if I attack the rear supporting element?
The active player (the player whose turn it is) makes all decisions of who is fighting whom (within the rules). No, the player who owns a particular stand has no say in the matter if it is not their turn.
DK
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Rod
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Re: Clarification of Flank Attacks - especially versus supported Pike

Post by Rod » Tue Aug 31, 2021 10:40 pm

Does this negate the rear support provided to the front element, if I attack the rear supporting element?
Hope DK covered the others, but in case this was not clear, if you attack the rear part of the pike block and win you can remove that support from the front fight. You have to win though and either destroy the rear unit or force it to turn by winning.

It depends on the order of the combat. If you fight the front first rear support is still there for that fight.
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