Shooting

A place to ask specific rules questions about TRIUMPH!
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Andreas Johansson
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Shooting

Post by Andreas Johansson » Mon Jan 09, 2017 6:18 am

Unless we're missing something, the Early Access edition has no requirement for elements to to shoot back if shot at, if able. Correct?

Playing a game with two shooty armies on Saturday, we found the shooting rules vague on a number of points:

When do you declare targets? Does all shooting have to be declared before any is resolved? Can one player change his mind about what his elements shoot at once the opponent has declared his? If shooting is declared "as it happens", can a nonphasing player told to resolve combat with a given stand "activate" other stands as supports, and if so can he change the primary shooter to another stand than that which was nominated?

It did strike us that shooting would be simpler and frequently more reasonable if elements had to shoot at the target straight ahead of its centre, or the one closest to there. Artillery may need to be exempt.

Also, measuring the range along one edge of the path means that two lines of Archers at just under 3 MU apart can or cannot shoot at one another depending on alignment. This is surely a bug.

The shooting arc restriction of 1 base width to either side apparently only affects Artillery, since the measuring along the edge of a path already restricts shooters with a 3 MU range to shoot up to 2 MU to the side (since the path segment from the shooter's centre will only reach 2 MU to the side of the stand's flank in the degenerate case of zero perpendicular distance).
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Bill Hupp
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Re: Shooting

Post by Bill Hupp » Mon Jan 09, 2017 7:08 pm

Rod and I ran into similar shooting priority and measurement issues when we played a German Pince vs. Hussite battle with shooty war wagons.

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Fab
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Re: Shooting

Post by Fab » Mon Jan 09, 2017 7:49 pm

According to 52.6 more than one stand can shoot at a target at the same time.

I didn't find any limit to the maximum possible number of shooters.

Did I miss something ?
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Pavane
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Re: Shooting

Post by Pavane » Mon Jan 09, 2017 10:21 pm

Fab wrote:According to 52.6 more than one stand can shoot at a target at the same time.

I didn't find any limit to the maximum possible number of shooters.

Did I miss something ?
Good question. I didn't see a limit in the rules, or in Appendix C: Tactical Factors where I expected a cap on "for each enemy stand aiding the shooter".
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Re: Shooting

Post by Rod » Tue Jan 10, 2017 12:44 am

I know there was some discussion about target selection and shooting in general...

However, right now I do not think there is a "restriction" on target selection or a maximum number of shooters allowed to overlap a target.

There is a limit on shooting at somebody only once, i.e. you have to resolve all fire as a single combat roll, so multiple shooters are combined into the -1 overlaps.

I am not sure there is a real need to limit the number of shooting overlaps? Practically more than 3 shooters on a single target is not likely unless the hapless target is surrounded on multiple sides... In that case, it will be a very bad day regardless.
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Pavane
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Re: Shooting

Post by Pavane » Tue Jan 10, 2017 2:50 am

Rod wrote:I am not sure there is a real need to limit the number of shooting overlaps? Practically more than 3 shooters on a single target is not likely unless the hapless target is surrounded on multiple sides... In that case, it will be a very bad day regardless.
Yeah, I thought that realistically that it would be self-limiting. If you find yourself with more than -2 tactical factors from assisted shooting then you deserve it.
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Bill Hupp
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Re: Shooting

Post by Bill Hupp » Tue Jan 10, 2017 5:40 am

So I think it mostly a priority process quesstion. Rod and I had no problem working out something that made sense, it just seemed like the rules could use some clarification as to what was intended.

Player 1, who's turn it is announces his shooting stands and who they are shooting at and who is giving support. 2nd Player reacts and decides who is going to support and who is going to shoot for themselves if they are not being shot at. Here is where Player 2 can choose to shoot at a Player 1 supporting unit rather than support their unit firing back. Player 2's shooting at a supporting element raised some questions as to whether Player 1's supporting unit must now fight its own battle with Player 2 or if can support and fight .

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