distant shooting arc of fire

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Maerk
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distant shooting arc of fire

Postby Maerk » Wed Aug 23, 2017 6:28 am

maybe I'm being finical, yet I see a slight contradiction in the wording of the rules about maximum range of distant shooting and the definition of the arc of fire :

50.1 and 50.2 give a maximum range of 3MU (or 8MU respectively)
51.1 says that "the arc of fire is a rectangular area extending from the front edge of the stand forward and extending out 1 base width to either side."

now either
- the arc of fire is a rectangular area. Then the maximum distance from one corner of the shooting element to the corner of the arc of fire is 3.6MU in violation of rule 50.1
- the maximum range for a shooting element is 3MU hard and fast, then the arc of fire is not of rectangular shape, see graphic below.

is there a misapprehension of the written rules on my side?
best,
Maerk

Image
Last edited by Maerk on Wed Aug 23, 2017 12:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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David Kuijt
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Re: distant shooting arc of fire

Postby David Kuijt » Wed Aug 23, 2017 10:25 am

You're correct, the shape of the region where firing can occur is more complex than a simple rectangle. What you are describing (the image didn't come through on my end) is the intersection of the rectangle 3mu deep and 6mu wide centered on the front edge and the pill-shape created by expanding the firing edge 3mu in every direction; as you say it rounds the two far corners of the firing box slightly. That second shape is properly called a stadium, not an oval, but that's a usage with which most English-speakers are unfamiliar (I had to look it up). Wikipedia tells me that "discorectangle" and "obround" are alternative names for that shape, but I've never heard those words before. Discorectangle sounds sort of 1979.

Image

There is no geometric name for the shape we are discussing (intersection of the rectangle and the stadium), so we used "rectangle" to get the idea across quickly. The same thing is true for the shape of the targeting area of artillery, although the rounding of the two corners is very subtle for that zone.

In fact, the shape is even more complex -- when you make the quadrilateral that determines whether firing is possible, at least one of the edges of the "firing is legal" quadrilateral must be less than 3mu, which means some enemies may be partially within that intersected shape and still not be legal targets. It is possible that a target will be partially inside that shape and not be a legal target.
DK

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Re: distant shooting arc of fire

Postby Maerk » Wed Aug 23, 2017 12:40 pm

Thanks for your clarifications, David!

David Kuijt wrote:(...) the image didn't come through on my end (...)

I have changed the image location - hope it works by now.

David Kuijt wrote:There is no geometric name for the shape we are discussing (intersection of the rectangle and the stadium), so we used "rectangle" to get the idea across quickly.

the wording is ok for me now that I know what you mean by "rectangle".

David Kuijt wrote:In fact, the shape is even more complex -- when you make the quadrilateral that determines whether firing is possible, at least one of the edges of the "firing is legal" quadrilateral must be less than 3mu, which means some enemies may be partially within that intersected shape and still not be legal targets. It is possible that a target will be partially inside that shape and not be a legal target.

I'm sorry to say I don't get the idea, David. Why do you think that one of the "firing is legal" quadrilateral edges must be less than 3MU from the shooter? I don't get a clue rom the paragraphs in 53.1 "eligibility to shoot" either.

Maerk

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David Kuijt
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Re: distant shooting arc of fire

Postby David Kuijt » Wed Aug 23, 2017 12:47 pm

Maerk wrote:I have changed the image location - hope it works by now.


Good now!

Maerk wrote:I'm sorry to say I don't get the idea, David. Why do you think that one of the "firing is legal" quadrilateral edges must be less than 3MU from the shooter? I don't get a clue rom the paragraphs in 53.1 "eligibility to shoot" either.


53.1.c: At least one of the lines that define the clear path is equal to or less than the maximum range of the shooting stand.

This rule seems a little finicky, but not so -- it is required to prevent shooting in situations where the part of the stand that is in-range is hidden by woods or another stand. So you might get an enemy stand that is within the truncated rectangle, but the part that is within the truncated rectangle is hidden, and the part outside the shooting region is not hidden but out of range. The intuition (that you cannot fire at such a stand) is obvious, but we need the rule to support the intuition.
DK

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Maerk
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Re: distant shooting arc of fire

Postby Maerk » Wed Aug 23, 2017 2:09 pm

Yes, if there is an intervening terrain piece or a stand then I can see your point.

Don't take me wrong - your Triumph! rules are very straightforward to apply, don't worry - it was just the minor issue about the "rectangle" that made me inquire.

Looking forward to my next Triumph! game which is about to start in a few minutes (Later Graeco-Bactrian vs. Skythian).

Maerk


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