20 and 15mm deep bases for 15mm

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Rod
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Re: 20 and 15mm deep bases for 15mm

Postby Rod » Tue Jul 18, 2017 12:56 pm

Maybe that the recommended base depths are.... X, but it is possible to play with deeper bases as long as you keep in mind the following impacts on game play, like troop identification, fallback distance..... etc.

This is also important for using legacy WRG based troops for example like Horde, Bow Levy and Cataphracts. I played against Larry in the Open and he had Bow Levy on 20mm bases since he has not rebased anything yet. It was not a problem.

I don't think this has to go into the rules, but maybe as a helpful designer note for "large figures" and legacy based or multi-rule use armies?

paulgpotter
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Re: 20 and 15mm deep bases for 15mm

Postby paulgpotter » Tue Jul 18, 2017 12:57 pm

3.1 does say that and 7.4 says
"each stand must be of the appropriate depth for its troop type as specified in Appendix A'.

-Paul

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David Schlanger
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Re: 20 and 15mm deep bases for 15mm

Postby David Schlanger » Tue Jul 18, 2017 1:21 pm

paulgpotter wrote:3.1 does say that and 7.4 says
"each stand must be of the appropriate depth for its troop type as specified in Appendix A'.

-Paul


Good point, well it seems we need to clarify that conflict a bit or modify it. Base depth for distinguishing between close order and open order is a benefit, but not essential in my mind. The real issue is base depth for falling back in combat and issues of movement. We will discuss this issue at our next meeting and come up with something.

DS

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David Kuijt
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Re: 20 and 15mm deep bases for 15mm

Postby David Kuijt » Tue Jul 18, 2017 2:08 pm

I'm just not sure that there is any use in encoding "optional" rules. Saying "if your figs don't fit, do what you think best" in the rules is counterproductive. People do that anyway, and there is nothing wrong with that, but explicitly putting permission in doesn't change anything and can be confusing to new players.

Would I play Paul if he bases his Heavy Foot on 20mm bases? Sure. Would I kick him out of a tournament I run? Never. (Okay, maybe for behavioral reasons, but never for putting active-pose figures on deeper bases). Do I think that should be written into the rules? No, I don't think I do -- because optional rules open a bag of worms that we might not want opened, and because that's just a stop-gap solution to the problem anyway. As figure scale gets bigger and bigger Paul may have to base his figs on 60mm wide bases as they go from 20mm towards old true 25mm. Figure scale increase is an ongoing problem and there is no solution except just using bigger bases, and bigger depth is just a stopgap solution.
DK

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David Schlanger
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Re: 20 and 15mm deep bases for 15mm

Postby David Schlanger » Tue Jul 18, 2017 2:40 pm

Also, the rules state:

4 RULES MODIFICATIONS
4.1 These rules may be modified at the discretion of players, clubs, and tournament organizers.

So, the door is open to do what you want as you see fit. Obviously, doing things according to a standard whenever possible would be our preference for a variety of reasons. But we are not going to stand in the way of people doing what they want, generally speaking, in the pursuit of having fun and enjoying our game.

DS

paulgpotter
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Re: 20 and 15mm deep bases for 15mm

Postby paulgpotter » Tue Jul 18, 2017 3:51 pm

Thumbs up then! -Paul

Rod
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Re: 20 and 15mm deep bases for 15mm

Postby Rod » Tue Jul 18, 2017 4:22 pm

a designer's note that says...
"
Figure base depth is an important part of how the game plays.... however, it is certainly possible to play with different base depths as long as you make clear and identify the units and as long as the players use them as if they were on the correct depth. i.e. Bow Levy on 20mm bases still need 30mm to fall back for example. Also, they would pursue 30mm.
"
It is not a rule change, but an example of the "players are free to modify them as they like in their own events" comment....

I have seen "house tournament rules" for other systems that said heavy elements could be on deeper bases, as long as they are properly identified to your opponent, and by the way they only fell back 15mm or pursued 15mm.... However the penalty was that if they had only 15mm behind them but the base did not fit... you did not shift the board to make room, then they were dead because they were on oversized bases.

So nobody objected, because it was very rarely if ever an issue that they were on deeper bases, the small penalty if it came up applied only to the guy using the deeper bases and was encouragement to bring the preferred base depth if possible.

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David Kuijt
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Re: 20 and 15mm deep bases for 15mm

Postby David Kuijt » Tue Jul 18, 2017 7:24 pm

Rod wrote:a designer's note that says...


I would much rather put in work (and increase the length of the rules) explaining the intent of the rules, rather than explaining the intent of the optional rule we didn't write.
DK

Rod
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Re: 20 and 15mm deep bases for 15mm

Postby Rod » Tue Jul 18, 2017 9:22 pm

David, I was not suggesting explain a rule not included in the game.... I think my " Designer note" in between the suggested quotes was just the opposite? Because it is telling people that if they use alternative bases they need to make sure they keep in mind the rules related to why the bases are different depths is explaining why the recommended base depth is important, while also telling them they do not have to rebase their figures before trying the rules.

"
Figure base depth is an important part of how the game plays.... however, it is certainly possible to play with different base depths as long as you make clear and identify the units and as long as the players use them as if they were on the correct depth. i.e. Bow Levy on 20mm bases still need 30mm to fall back for example. Also, they would pursue 30mm.
"


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