Group moves.. clarification

A place to ask specific rules questions about TRIUMPH!
jbbpioneer
Levy
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2016 12:49 am

Group moves.. clarification

Postby jbbpioneer » Wed Dec 14, 2016 9:04 pm

Article 35 on group moves would seem to allow a two stands of different type (say heavy foot and archer) to be in full front to back contact and facing the same direction to be a group. Is that correct?

Also if a supported unit which is flanked loses the combat and is eliminated, is the supporting unit also eliminated? IF not, what is the proper movement for its fallback/pushback?

User avatar
David Schlanger
Grand Master WGC
Posts: 136
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:01 pm

Re: Group moves.. clarification

Postby David Schlanger » Thu Dec 15, 2016 12:00 am

jbbpioneer wrote:Article 35 on group moves would seem to allow a two stands of different type (say heavy foot and archer) to be in full front to back contact and facing the same direction to be a group. Is that correct?


If I understand the description correctly, you are referring to two stands in position to move as a column. This is a group, can move as a group, and do other group things. It does not matter that they are two different troop types.

jbbpioneer wrote:Also if a supported unit which is flanked loses the combat and is eliminated, is the supporting unit also eliminated? IF not, what is the proper movement for its fallback/pushback?


Here it is: "71.2 A stand that provided rear support is not destroyed if the supported stand is destroyed." If the supported stand is flanked and destroyed, 71.2 still applies (being flanked is not a special case for this rule). The supporting stand is not eliminated. Because it was flanked, the supported stand cannot fall back and is eliminated. As a result, the supporting stand stays in its original spot without falling back or being pushed back.

Hope this makes sense!
DS

jbbpioneer
Levy
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2016 12:49 am

Re: Group moves.. clarification

Postby jbbpioneer » Thu Dec 15, 2016 3:06 pm

OK. Appreciate the help. Many thanks.

jbbpioneer
Levy
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2016 12:49 am

Re: Group moves.. clarification

Postby jbbpioneer » Fri Dec 16, 2016 5:03 am

Played 4 more games tonight and uncovered a few more questions for clarification.

Re my earlier comment on article 35, to clarify my situation say I have a group of 3 archers in front and 3 knights in contact behind them all facing the same, do they constitute a group and can be moved with one CP?

Also on the distance shooting we befuddled ourselves with the wording interpretation. Please confirm our understanding
1. Elephants, elite foot, Heavy foot, Raiders as targets - shooter gets a -1 on firing
2. Pavisiers shooting at foot- Shooter gets a -1 on firing
3. A general's stand always gets a +1 on its defensive strength when receiving fire

"In difficult terrain"- does this mean any tiny part of the stand in difficult terrain, or two corners or 1/2 or ??

We are enjoying the gaming system and hope to be totally comfortable with it soon. Thanks!

User avatar
David Kuijt
Grand Master WGC
Posts: 624
Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2016 4:44 pm
Location: MD suburbs of Washington DC

Re: Group moves.. clarification

Postby David Kuijt » Fri Dec 16, 2016 1:27 pm

jbbpioneer wrote:Played 4 more games tonight and uncovered a few more questions for clarification.

Re my earlier comment on article 35, to clarify my situation say I have a group of 3 archers in front and 3 knights in contact behind them all facing the same, do they constitute a group and can be moved with one CP?


Yup. Assuming they're moving in open terrain.

jbbpioneer wrote:Also on the distance shooting we befuddled ourselves with the wording interpretation. Please confirm our understanding
1. Elephants, elite foot, Heavy foot, Raiders as targets - shooter gets a -1 on firing
2. Pavisiers shooting at foot- Shooter gets a -1 on firing
3. A general's stand always gets a +1 on its defensive strength when receiving fire


That's partly correct. Your point 1. is reversed -- Elephants, elite foot, heavy foot, raiders as target DEFEND at -1. So it isn't that the shooters are -1, it is that the target is -1. Archers vs. Elite Foot is +2 to +5 in close combat; at range it is +2 to +4. And so on.

jbbpioneer wrote:"In difficult terrain"- does this mean any tiny part of the stand in difficult terrain, or two corners or 1/2 or ??


Any tiny part. Remember that in the real world there is no hard dividing line for the edge of a terrain piece -- woods doesn't normally have a hard edge like Fangorn Forest when Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli came upon it in Northern Rohan. As you move from open terrain to difficult terrain in the real world you pass through a zone of increasing terrain density and there is rarely a sharp divide. We considered judging being "in" difficult terrain by where the center of the stand was, and other systems, but they were significantly more fussy and less clear than just going with the simplest system -- are you in at all. Any part in means in.
DK

jbbpioneer
Levy
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2016 12:49 am

Re: Group moves.. clarification

Postby jbbpioneer » Sun Dec 18, 2016 3:59 pm

As always, I appreciate the time and thought of the reply. We now have a clear understanding.

Jeff

jbbpioneer
Levy
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2016 12:49 am

Re: Group moves.. clarification

Postby jbbpioneer » Wed Dec 21, 2016 10:35 pm

Had 4 players last night and we did 7 games overall. Some more clarifications needed.

1. If a heavy foot is partially in difficult terrain and is fighting a foot unit totally in clear, does the foot unit in the clear fight with a -2 as well?

2. We assume a unit defending the camp that needs to fallback is eliminated and counts against the 16 point limit.

3. A unit is out of command range and has just lost the king/leader. Does it take 2 CP to move or 4 CP to move in future turns?

Thanks, Jeff

User avatar
David Kuijt
Grand Master WGC
Posts: 624
Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2016 4:44 pm
Location: MD suburbs of Washington DC

Re: Group moves.. clarification

Postby David Kuijt » Wed Dec 21, 2016 11:05 pm

jbbpioneer wrote:Had 4 players last night and we did 7 games overall. Some more clarifications needed.

1. If a heavy foot is partially in difficult terrain and is fighting a foot unit totally in clear, does the foot unit in the clear fight with a -2 as well?

2. We assume a unit defending the camp that needs to fallback is eliminated and counts against the 16 point limit.

3. A unit is out of command range and has just lost the king/leader. Does it take 2 CP to move or 4 CP to move in future turns?


Hey Jeff,

1. No. Mounted who are in open terrain suffer a -2 if fighting foot who are in difficult, but foot in open terrain just suffer the penalty if they are actually in the difficult terrain.

2. You are correct.

3. 2 CP. Being dead is just the most extreme case of being out of command range -- you are WAAAAAYYY out.
DK

User avatar
David Schlanger
Grand Master WGC
Posts: 136
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:01 pm

Re: Group moves.. clarification

Postby David Schlanger » Wed Dec 21, 2016 11:06 pm

jbbpioneer wrote:Had 4 players last night and we did 7 games overall. Some more clarifications needed.

1. If a heavy foot is partially in difficult terrain and is fighting a foot unit totally in clear, does the foot unit in the clear fight with a -2 as well?


Foot stand in the clear does not get the -2 modifier. (If it was a mounted stand, it would)

2. We assume a unit defending the camp that needs to fallback is eliminated and counts against the 16 point limit.


Yes, eliminated. "2.4 A camp that has been sacked counts as 8 points of lost troops in addition to the point cost of any stand that was garrisoning the camp."

3. A unit is out of command range and has just lost the king/leader. Does it take 2 CP to move or 4 CP to move in future turns?

Thanks, Jeff


" 25.3 A tactical move costs an additional command point for each of the following categories that applies:
a. +1 command point if the move includes any Artillery, Elephant, or War Wagon stands.
b. +1 command point if the moving stand or group of stands is outside of the general’s command distance, the general’s stand has been destroyed, or is not on the game board. "

So, since the out of command range and losing the general are both from category b, only a single instance of +1 applies. So, 2 CP to make a tactical move. If it was Artillery, Elephant or War Wagon in the same situation, it would be 3CP.

DS

jbbpioneer
Levy
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2016 12:49 am

Re: Group moves.. clarification

Postby jbbpioneer » Thu Dec 22, 2016 10:34 pm

Another quickie... 53.1 discusses distance shooting at rear, but I can not find any reference to why that is significant... what am I missing.


Return to “Rules Questions”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest