Fortified Camps

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greedo
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Fortified Camps

Post by greedo » Fri Mar 25, 2022 8:44 pm

A quick question that came up between Shawn Comrie and myself about fortified camps...

My impression was that a camp gives the defender +1.
Camp followers (i.e. camp with no garrison) are also cf +1.

Thus an unfortified camp with just camp followers is: 1+1 = cf 2.
An unfortified camp with a garrison is X+1 = X+1, where X is the cf of the garrisoning element.

BUT a fortified camp gives +2:
So a fortified camp with just camp followers is: 1+2 = cf 3.
A fortified camp with garrison is X+2 = X+2, where X is the cf of the garrisoning element.

Shawn I think says that fortified camps with garrisons are only +1.
So we figured we'd check with you lads to get a ruling :)
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Rod
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Re: Fortified Camps

Post by Rod » Sat Mar 26, 2022 2:44 am

Camps are normally a +2 Combat factor.

If garrisoned it is a 1 plus the point cost of the troop used as the garrison (not it's combat factor). So for example a camp garrisoned with a Horde is base of 1 plus 2 points for the horde pr +3 combat factor.

If garrisoned with an elite foot, 1 + 4 points for the elite foot of +5 combat factor.

If the camp is fortified add +2 to whatever it was unfortified. So a fortified camp with a light foot garrison is 1+3 for light foot +2 for fortified = +6 combat factor.
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greedo
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Re: Fortified Camps

Post by greedo » Sat Mar 26, 2022 4:26 am

Oh wow, I was way off.
Thanks for the clarification Rod!
skc
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Re: Fortified Camps

Post by skc » Sat Mar 26, 2022 7:34 am

Thanks Rod for clarifying this, and Chris for bringing it up. Wow' I didn't even realise the the Combat for the Garrison was its Points Cost and not its usual CF. but there is is!
72.2 A camp with a garrison has a combat factor derived from the cost of the garrisoning stand:

I did realise Fortification added +2 but was not sure re: the +1 and Garrison.

I guess, Rules are meant to be read and studied, not just glossed over! (as I tend to do;) At least so far (unlike DBA/DBM) this Ruleset truly means what it says, with no ambiguity.
BTW: Once I got them to read the rules, it seems two 'die hard' DBA players in our Club now have an interest in Triumph! So pleased.

Thanks for coming back to us on this.
skc
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Re: Fortified Camps

Post by skc » Sat Mar 26, 2022 7:48 am

BTW: I do have one other query. Why, when there is a Garrison does the Camp CF go down to +1? Are the Camp followers perhaps helping/feeding the Garrison now or is it to prevent the Camp becoming too strong?
Please let us know the reason. Thanks for your responses.
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Rod
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Re: Fortified Camps

Post by Rod » Sat Mar 26, 2022 12:22 pm

Well you might have different rationalizations for it, part of it is just to play balance, but think of it this way.

Camp no garrison is still full of camp followers (i.e. think really really low quality rabble). Total combat value is +2 (so essentially not different than camp +1 with camp followers +1)

Camp with a 2 point stand is not much better but, with more people, so the camp is now +3 (essentially the camp followers but with reinforcements and pointy sticks or a bow and a few arrows).

The more valuable the stand you sacrifice to garrison the better the defense, and keep in mind that units defending a camp are not fighting in their normal manner, adding a garrison increases the numbers the quality of the numbers comes from the stand cost.

Fortified camp is a special case making the position more defensible so add +2 to whatever the base defense was.

When you get to the level of fortified with some serious soldiers in it, like a unit of spear defending a fortified camp you essentially take it out of the realm of a quick sacking, so the camp would only fall if the army losses.
skc
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Re: Fortified Camps

Post by skc » Sat Mar 26, 2022 2:10 pm

Give me a better idea. Thanks Rod.
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greedo
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Re: Fortified Camps

Post by greedo » Sat Mar 26, 2022 2:41 pm

8 points is nothing to sneeze at, as my Romans found out twice! Fortifying even an empty camp is a decent dis incentive, although I can’t imagine putting something like elite foot in there, as they are too valuable to take off the table, but it’s a thought…. 4+1+2=cf7!!
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