Fall Back with Pass Through.

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zendor
Levy
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Fall Back with Pass Through.

Post by zendor » Mon Dec 06, 2021 5:45 pm

Hi guys! I would like to clarify one situation of the Fall Back move with Pass Through.
I have two similar cases and in both of them the stand of Skirmishers lose close combat to the Warriors stand and must Fall Back.
1) Right behind the Skirmishers there is a friendly stand of Pike in full edge contact (front to rear).
2) In the second case right behind the Skirmishers there are two friendly stands of Pike (with rear support).
How will the Skirmishers perform the Fall Back move in the first and in the second case?

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Rod
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Re: Fall Back with Pass Through.

Post by Rod » Tue Dec 07, 2021 1:37 pm

Case 1 the skirmisher falls back through the pike.

Case 2 the skirmisher cannot fall back through because there is no open space behind the first stand. however, since the skirmisher is aligned it can push back both stands it's full base depth.

This is significant to remember when facing elephants which panic skirmishers. Case 1 skirmisher falls back through and panics, case 2 the skirmisher pushes the pike back turns around to run and is destroyed.
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zendor
Levy
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Re: Fall Back with Pass Through.

Post by zendor » Tue Dec 07, 2021 2:53 pm

Rod wrote:
Tue Dec 07, 2021 1:37 pm
Case 1 the skirmisher falls back through the pike.

Case 2 the skirmisher cannot fall back through because there is no open space behind the first stand. however, since the skirmisher is aligned it can push back both stands it's full base depth.

This is significant to remember when facing elephants which panic skirmishers. Case 1 skirmisher falls back through and panics, case 2 the skirmisher pushes the pike back turns around to run and is destroyed.
Thank you Rod!
As a continuation of this topic, I would like to ask another question. What will happen if Skirmishers have to Evade with two stands of Pike behind?
If I get it right, at first the Skirmishers Push Back both stands of Pikes, and then make an Evade movement through them. Am I right?
Below I've drawn two steps of this movement for clarity.

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Rod
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Re: Fall Back with Pass Through.

Post by Rod » Tue Dec 07, 2021 4:25 pm

Yes that is correct, evade is very different from fall back or panic. Evade is a voluntary move, i.e. like a tactical move. So Evade never destroys a unit, worst case if they had no place to go they simply stop after the fall back move. They still have to be able to fall back or they are destroyed.

So in your example if they were not a unit that could pass through the pike (anything other than skirmishers) they would evade and stop in front of the troops they cannot pass through facing the enemy.

Fall back and panic moves are forced or compulsory moves and must be completed or the unit disperses and is lost.
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David Kuijt
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Re: Fall Back with Pass Through.

Post by David Kuijt » Wed Dec 08, 2021 12:16 am

Minor correction -- you've moved the Skirmisher too far back on the Evade. You measured 4mu back to front, not original corner to same corner. Everything else is good.
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zendor
Levy
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Re: Fall Back with Pass Through.

Post by zendor » Wed Dec 08, 2021 4:14 pm

Thank so much Rod and David!

After some reflections I had one thought...
Doesn't it look a little unusual that one stand of Skirmishers can easily push back an entire column of close order troops (up to 3 stands in column, as I get it right)?
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Rod
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Re: Fall Back with Pass Through.

Post by Rod » Thu Dec 09, 2021 1:38 pm

That is why they have to be lined up, i.e. organized and prepared to fall back like one big unit of Pike with Skirmishers deployed and working in concert.

This is what the lined up requirement represents, a level of organization and coordination and command control that starts to fall apart as the armies get into battle. If they are not lined up then the skirmishers are squished and destroyed.
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zendor
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Re: Fall Back with Pass Through.

Post by zendor » Fri Dec 10, 2021 2:59 pm

Rod wrote:
Thu Dec 09, 2021 1:38 pm
That is why they have to be lined up, i.e. organized and prepared to fall back like one big unit of Pike with Skirmishers deployed and working in concert.

This is what the lined up requirement represents, a level of organization and coordination and command control that starts to fall apart as the armies get into battle. If they are not lined up then the skirmishers are squished and destroyed.
Thanks for the explanation, Rod! Sounds really reasonable.
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