Page 1 of 1

Ming Chinese Plaustrella (Warwagons)

Posted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 3:19 pm
by David Kuijt
I was looking through the army lists and struck by the Warwagon of the Ming. Some searching found me the following link (images discovered by the Hong Kong Society of Wargamers): http://hksw.freeforums.org/chinese-war-wagons-t690.html.

In short, the "Warwagons" of the Ming are spiky wheelbarrow type things that are clearly pushed by men and in all significant ways seem exactly like the Plaustrella discussed here:

http://forum.wgcwar.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=65

This seems to mean that the Ming Warwagons should be altered to be Plaustrella (which aren't a distinct stand type per se, but rather a battle card that allows you to equip a stand of Heavy Foot (or in some rare armies like Ghurid, Light Spear) with mobile spiky barriers that enhances their combat against mounted only and slows their movement. Plaustrella are pretty well documented in a variety of historical contexts.

Anybody have any thoughts or comments?

Re: Ming Chinese Plaustrella (Warwagons)

Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 10:46 am
by Andreas Johansson
FWIW, the latest DBMM lists also class them the same as plaustrella (and different from a Hussite Wagenburg).

I do wonder how much actual use they ever saw, however - they're featured in compendia of military gadgets, but I don't seem to recall hearing of one in a battle account. Have you?

Re: Ming Chinese Plaustrella (Warwagons)

Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 12:04 pm
by David Kuijt
Andreas Johansson wrote:FWIW, the latest DBMM lists also class them the same as plaustrella (and different from a Hussite Wagenburg).


That's good, since they shouldn't shoot. And traditional draft-animal-pulled wagons shouldn't be able to move into contact with enemy. And no-shooting and no-contact means no damn use!

Andreas Johansson wrote:I do wonder how much actual use they ever saw, however - they're featured in compendia of military gadgets, but I don't seem to recall hearing of one in a battle account. Have you?


Nope. For Asian warfare I have to rely on the scholarship of others; I've got nothing.

However I just read some on the HK wargamers forum link below, and it has a couple of citations for battles using lots of warwagons (against the Mongols in 1410, and in an invasion southward a little later). Plus citations for requisitions of fairly large numbers of the actual objects (although what exactly is a "Fire Wagon" and what is a "Total Victory Wagon" is not clear, except that they were both names of wagon-like warfare devices).

I do like the name "Total Victory Wagon," though.