Time of conforming

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Fab
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Time of conforming

Postby Fab » Mon Dec 19, 2016 8:08 pm

Comparing point 42.1 and 55.1.

According to 42.1 a single stand legally contacted on a flank by a group must immediately conform (assuming that the conditions at 42.2 are satisfied).

Then point 55.1 says that a stand, starting the close combat phase with a flank contacted by an enemy (without an enemy on its front), must turn to face such an enemy immediately before resolving its combat. And it suffers an additional -1 during combat.

The timing of conforming is different.

So I understand that in the second case either
1- the contacted stand is part of a group and the contacting stand is single or
2- the contacted stand is part of a group and the contacting stand is part of a group or
3- the contacted stand is single and the contacting stand is single.

Is my understanding correct ? (mainly for case 3).

Thanks
Fab

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David Kuijt
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Re: Time of conforming

Postby David Kuijt » Mon Dec 19, 2016 8:50 pm

Your understanding is correct.

Basically there are two different "conforms" going on. In the first case a group is sweeping across the map and some single stand is in the way and must fight, but the stands aren't aligned so must be made so. In the second case one stand hits a second stand in normal legal combat (but on its flank or rear) and there is no alignment-oddity to fix, so combat proceeds as normal. They both use the verb "conform", but it isn't really quite the same thing going on.
DK

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Fab
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Re: Time of conforming

Postby Fab » Mon Dec 19, 2016 9:40 pm

Perfect.

Thank you

Fab

MarkusB
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Re: Time of conforming

Postby MarkusB » Tue Dec 20, 2016 2:04 pm

I have a couple of questions too:

Article 42.1 - single elements contacted by groups conform "immediately", so I think it means during the enemy's movement phase, is this correct?

Article 42.2 (a, b and c) - I think I understand them, but I'm not totally sure... Could you provide a couple of examples of a stand NOT meeting any of the three requirements and thus not having to conform?

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David Schlanger
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Re: Time of conforming

Postby David Schlanger » Tue Dec 20, 2016 2:59 pm

MarkusB wrote:I have a couple of questions too:

Article 42.1 - single elements contacted by groups conform "immediately", so I think it means during the enemy's movement phase, is this correct?

Article 42.2 (a, b and c) - I think I understand them, but I'm not totally sure... Could you provide a couple of examples of a stand NOT meeting any of the three requirements and thus not having to conform?


Thanks for pointing this out. 42.1 and 42.2 may need a little bit of TLC just to make it easier to understand, we will see.
If a stand has room to fall back in its original position, but then after conforming will have no room to fall back... then it does not conform.

DS

MarkusB
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Re: Time of conforming

Postby MarkusB » Tue Dec 20, 2016 4:16 pm

If a stand has room to fall back in its original position, but then after conforming will have no room to fall back... then it does not conform.


Hmmm... To my eyes, 44.2 seems currently to say exactly the opposite: "A stand must conform [...] if, after conforming, the stand would be subject to being shattered if beaten."

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David Kuijt
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Re: Time of conforming

Postby David Kuijt » Tue Dec 20, 2016 5:01 pm

MarkusB wrote:Hmmm... To my eyes, 44.2 seems currently to say exactly the opposite: "A stand must conform [...] if, after conforming, the stand would be subject to being shattered if beaten."


Right; DS abbreviated his answer. You conform if conforming doesn't make you "worse off":
  • you weren't ever going to fall back anyway (you were going to be shattered)
  • you are trapped already (no room to fall back now), so being trapped in the new position is not worse
  • you have space to fall back in the new position

This complicated little section is brought to you by the fact that without it, forcing stands to conform can be a source of tremendous cheese.
DK

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Fab
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Re: Time of conforming

Postby Fab » Tue Dec 20, 2016 5:23 pm

If the attacked element is not obliged to conform what happens ?

Is the move canceled ?

Thanks
Fab

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David Kuijt
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Re: Time of conforming

Postby David Kuijt » Tue Dec 20, 2016 5:46 pm

Fab wrote:If the attacked element is not obliged to conform what happens ?

Is the move canceled ?


Nope. The moving group moves normally to the point of contact, then stops there without causing conforming. Just as it would if it hit a group, rather than a single stand.
DK

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David Kuijt
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Re: Time of conforming

Postby David Kuijt » Tue Dec 20, 2016 5:50 pm

MarkusB wrote:Article 42.2 (a, b and c) - I think I understand them, but I'm not totally sure... Could you provide a couple of examples of a stand NOT meeting any of the three requirements and thus not having to conform?


Any stand that has the room to fall back where it is now, but will not have the room to fall back where it would end up, does not conform. UNLESS the guy that hit it (the guy that will end up fighting him) would shatter him rather than causing him to fall back, (in which case falling back is never going to happen anyway).
DK


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